QQ set hand facing river push(Deep)

[Jager]

Villain here is 26/20/1.5, this is the 1st time I have seen him. We were playing on 3 tables together and had battle preflop SEVERAL times. He is the reason I have a 200 BBs stack. My reads are that he is a habitual slowplayer/trapping player postflop, and that he likes to push.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($199.30)
Button ($50.40)
SB ($126.60)
BB ($137.65)
UTG ($220.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q.
UTG raises to $4, Hero calls $4, 3 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) 8, Q, 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $5, UTG calls $5.

Turn: ($19.50) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $16, UTG calls $16.

River: ($51.50) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $195.8 (All-In), Hero ??

[Galapogos]

If you guys are constantly battling preflop why no reraise with QQ? What does he push with? I hate these spots, the only hand that I think you could reasonably be afraid of is 78s if he were the kind to raise that UTG and not respect your flop bet.

I don't think a lower set would push so big on a scary river like that as he would most likely want to get some money off you.

[Jager]

If you guys are constantly battling preflop why no reraise with QQ?

This is the first real hand I have gotten that I have not 3 bet with. He has been running over all of our tables preflop. Everyone seems to be avoiding him, waiting for their monster so they can stack him. I have 3bet him with ATo, 76s, and other assorted crap, he calls sometimes and pushes/4bets others. I have built up by picking up his PFR's, and just generally playing better than him. This is the first time he pushed postflop against me.

[IowaSkinsFan]

The pot is almost neglible considering the push so pretty much he needs to have a flush or a straight here less than 50% of time, and I don't think that's the case. I think he's just a donk pushing into you with a backdoor flush. When I first say this hand I thought he mad Ac8c, calling midpair on the flop, hitting his flush draw on the turn, and donking the river.

[Galapogos]

If you guys are constantly battling preflop why no reraise with QQ?

This is the first real hand I have gotten that I have not 3 bet with. He has been running over all of our tables preflop. Everyone seems to be avoiding him, waiting for their monster so they can stack him. I have 3bet him with ATo, 76s, and other assorted crap, he calls sometimes and pushes/4bets others. I have built up by picking up his PFR's, and just generally playing better than him. This is the first time he pushed postflop against me.

I fold then if this is the first time he has pushed post flop and generally let you take down pots earlier.

I really don't like not 3-betting preflop though if you have been 3-betting him with lesser hands earlier. And it would have made this much easier to play because if he followed you to the turn there's a chance you would get it all-in there.

[bdawg56kg]

Can you post specific hands with this villain? As played I think this is a flush a lot, so I'd fold.

[seoul_child1]

No IMO this doesn't look like a backdoor flush, why would you not wanna get paid, an AI scares away anything marginal that would call?? It looks more like 10, J and he donkishly called flop bet hoping to spike his miracle card with his hidden draw and then the AI is for his dislike of the river...

[Silly String]

I fold this. I can see a couple clubs here or JT. Be thankful that his river open push only cost you $25 in bets.
The only thing bothering me is that you said he has been running over the table. I hate to let him run you down when you have a good hand though. How often has he pushed postflop against the rest of the table?

[bigspenda73]

*sigh* I wish I had the discipline to fold hands like this *sigh*

Of course, what can he REALLY put you on? If he thinks you have a set then this may be a great play. What is he really trying to gain by making this bet? If he has a monster what hands will be calling him here with this massive overbet?

I somehow convince myself to call before the timebank expires.

[seoul_child1]

to be honest your line doesn't scream monster hand, least of all Top Set... his line looks like he went fishing but to what? i highly doubt he caught his backdoor flush cause if he did he would want some sort of payment, your line looks more like TPTK, how can that hand call an AI here, it can't... i think he is trying to take away this meager $50 pot thinking u can't call his massive overbet with only one pair. i think more and more he has a lower set!!!! I CALL...

[Fnord]

AA/KK/set

I call this.

[mcatdog]

By the way I think you can bet more on the flop because guys like this almost never fail to c-bet, unless they have a marginal hand like second pair and they're trying to induce a bluff. When he checks the flop I'd immediately put him on JJ, TT, 99, or an eight, and bet at least $7 expecting to get called down.

[gabe]

im with fnord, dont fold

reraise pre if you are also reraising with trash and bet more on the flop

[jyms]

86s, you have him. He thinks he's playing you and knows you don't have a flush. He's got you on AQ, because of the not 3 betting. You got exactly what you want. CALL.

[bigspenda73]

BTW this exact thing happened to me yesterday 300bb deep and I called....

and I puked

[Rondavu]

This is an easy fold IMO. Villain is putting you on a strong enough hand to call or absolutely nothing after making a deceptive draw. He sees that you could have a set, AA/KK, or even an unlikely straight to his backdoor flush. In other words you're calling it all or not calling anything often enough.

I think a competent player pushes the flush or straight on the river here, knowing so many strong losing hands want to call.

Biggest reason I fold is because villain hasn't been this far out of line postflop.

to be honest your line doesn't scream monster hand, least of all Top Set

Sometimes the board defines the range enough. In a competent villains mind, hero has a very small range of mid strength hands, and a larger range of flat nothings and monsters.

[Renton]

i get stacked way way way way way too easily, and you all know this, but i fold here with pretty much zero thought.

[Silly String]

BTW this exact thing happened to me yesterday 300bb deep and I called....

and I puked

Maybe these guys are starting to read Sklansky's new book and have learned the value of pushing the nuts and getting called occasionally. Sure makes playing LAGs harder. Has he done this turn or river push to anyone else at the table yet?
Crappy situation, but I can fold without feeling too bad since we would have to call $173 to win $223 here.

[Warpe]

Bleh. Given the read I can see the call but c/c c/c shove usually says a draw just got there to me.

Definitely agree that we need to play this faster.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I think you guys may be overlooking that there is no hand (seemingly) he would check/call the flop with that has two clubs in it.

You said he likes to push. Does he do severe overpushes like this a lot? have you folded to them before? have others folded to them before?

[jo]

I fold here. I also push the river a lot with a backdoor flush.

[Warpe]

AA/KK/set.

Traps usually get sprung on the turn, no?

[gabe]

I think you guys may be overlooking that there is no hand (seemingly) he would check/call the flop with that has two clubs in it.

sure he can

[Miffed22001]

i get stacked way way way way way too easily, and you all know this, but i fold here with pretty much zero thought.

i agree with calling 100% the time here.

Edit: no i dont, you dont even have 3rd nuts. Fold. This is how i play when i know opps cant fold a set and i turned my draw. Also opp is definatly loose enough to have J10 UTG here.

[griffey24]

I fold here. I also push the river a lot with a backdoor flush.

I agree with this. If I hit a well hidden hand (like a backdoor flush/straight) I usually push/overbet when it completes. They don't see it coming.

I'm not sure on villain's raising range, but he could have AKclubs, J10clubs or even simply J10 (though I'd imagine we'd hear that on the turn) and I'm not sure if he'd raise with that UTG.

[benny999]

I would feel like I "should" call here, tank, put my head down, call, and probably see a flush or str8 almost every damn time, haha.
it would rule to have JTc, 8cXc, 7c5c etc here. it's also sorta weird how i'd insta muck AQ but want to call with QQ.
and yea, wtf not reraising pre?

[elipsesjeff]

If villain has backdoor flush, I love the river push by him. However, usually i find that open pushes on the river when draw hits is the nuts here more than they aren't. If the guy was a complete lagtard/maniac I am much more likely to call than a thinking player.

[Alexos]

I fold here, I really dont see AA/KK doing this. Most likely are something like Ac8c like Iowa said or some middle SC that made a str8 or flush.

This is very, very read dependant. You say he likes to push, but that doesnt tell us much about when/what he likes to push if he hasnt gotten called yet.

Easy fold for me.

[bode]

i fold this pretty easily. i also like a reraise preflop since youve been doing it with worse hands before.

[Lukie]

I think this is a fold, but I'm not happy about it. I think in the heat of the moment, I'm calling here a decent amount of the time though.

also, the fact that we're 200bb deep and we get 4.5% of it in on the first 2 streets seems strikingly bad.

[Jager]

I always seem to get stuck in spots like this when I don't play 'standard' ie the reraise preflop. I called villain turned J8 clubs.

[silu73]

I would fold as well. I made up my mind before I read Jager's result. However, Re-raising pre-flop would have been better even against a maniac.

[gabe]

I always seem to get stuck in spots like this when I don't play 'standard' ie the reraise preflop. I called villain turned J8 clubs.

dont you wish you would have 4 bet pre??

[Renton]

i'd like to hear an explanation from the people who advocate calling here, when we are clearly fucked by any sane 3x the pot pushing range.