Pics From Muslim March/Demonstration in London - Disturbing

[martindcx1e]

EDIT: OK Well I fixed the photos. I don't know what happened to the site. All of the literature is still intact. Hmm...

Here is the URL
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Here are the pics

[Xianti]

[givememyleg]

is it just me or do all muslims look the same?

[martindcx1e]

is it just me or do all muslims look the same?

now you've done it...

[Renton]

lol?

[Miffed22001]

when you see slogans like 'europe is the cancer, muslim is the answer' i tend to ask myself how long before i see a racially motivated attack on some guy, and just walk past thinking 'silly muslim'
Just proves to be honest, that it isnt 'just' the radicals who are instigating western hatred.

[givememyleg]

is it just me or do all muslims look the same?

now you've done it...

Just checking that you realize we're seeing this pic over and over (even when I click on the link):



which is what i meant by my comment!

[martindcx1e]

ummm ya that wasn't there before lol. i'll try to see what went wrong...

EDIT: OK it's fixed. And leg...it does not matter. You have slandered Islam, and you will now be exterminated...

[a500lbgorilla]

is it just me or do all muslims look the same?

Yes. Same with blacks, asians, and sorority girls.

[Phantaroth]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

[Seasider]

Welcome to a few months ago; a few of the protesters involved have been criminally prosecuted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonpro...983936,00.html

Yuck the guardian I know, but it is good on the net.

etit: prosecuted criminally??? (I think its a GOOD thing they were)

[martindcx1e]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

umm ya these signs are on a whole 'nother level. that's for sure.

[martindcx1e]

Welcome to a few months ago; a few of the protesters involved have been criminally prosecuted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonpro...983936,00.html

Yuck the guardian I know, but it is good on the net.

etit: prosecuted criminally??? (I think its a GOOD thing they were)

thanks. i never saw these particular guys during the cartoon madness.

[a500lbgorilla]

GOD HATES FAGS

EVERYTIME A FAG DIES AN ANGEL GETS ITS WINGS

Anyone remember that fun family?

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

[givememyleg]

GOD HATES FAGS

EVERYTIME A FAG DIES AN ANGEL GETS ITS WINGS

Anyone remember that fun family?

ya the phelps family.. they rock

[martindcx1e]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

[Anosmic]

Ah, I remember this.

There was a lot of hostility from people in Tehran or something against Sweden over a cartoon in a Danish newspaper.

Then they realised that Denmark wasn't actually in Sweden.

Bloody Pakis.

[jdubs]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

QFT

[Xianti]

Dnuts is right on the mark.

[boost]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

this is a silly statement. If you are allowed this then I cant point out that western nations have a history of an inordinate amount of imperialistic leaders who will stop at no ends to colonize the world. Its jsut that violent coups of democratically elected governments arent taboo for western powers, and it should not be tolerated by anybody. Yet strangely it has been for centuries.

[Xianti]

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant since those times of evangelical mass murders.

Doing it in the name of religion has a certain extra feeling of evil that comes with it because such zealots actually believe what they are doing is morally correct. Now, doing it within the political game is a bit different. I'm not denying it's happened or happening nor am I saying it's right, but at least we know government politics is sinister no matter the culture.

[Phantaroth]

Just because these guys do this, doesn't make all, or even most muslims like that. Christians hold up some pretty bad signs as well, although - not that bad.

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

I believe it falls under freedom of speach, although this particular case is certainly enough to get many of the people investigated, I don't think they are actually breaking any crimes. Atleast not in America.

[Ash256]

These people seem to be very good at turning non-racists into racists.

[miracleriver]

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant ...

I don't share your outlook of modern-day civilizations. In the recent history there has been the hollocaust, genocide in Rwanda, genocide in Bosnia, genocide in Iraq, the rise of the taliban, the apartheid, to name a few. Africa seems to be riddled with ethnic wars. The Middle-East is fueled by a hatred towards the Jews. I don't know about you but it doesn't look that civil and tolerant to me.

... since those times of evangelical mass murders.

lol for singeling out "evangelical" people. Look at the history of Islam; it has spread mostly through the sword and subjugation of nations.

[martindcx1e]

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

this is a silly statement. If you are allowed this then I cant point out that western nations have a history of an inordinate amount of imperialistic leaders who will stop at no ends to colonize the world. Its jsut that violent coups of democratically elected governments arent taboo for western powers, and it should not be tolerated by anybody. Yet strangely it has been for centuries.

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

[boost]

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant since those times of evangelical mass murders.

Doing it in the name of religion has a certain extra feeling of evil that comes with it because such zealots actually believe what they are doing is morally correct. Now, doing it within the political game is a bit different. I'm not denying it's happened or happening nor am I saying it's right, but at least we know government politics is sinister no matter the culture.

The golf war (part 1 and 2) had very strong religious undertones, do you think this was unintentional? Do you not believe that there are a large amount of soldiers on the ground that believe they are doing the work of god at least to some degree? Its done with a lot more finesse on our side, but come on.

Sure colonization and the crusades dont happen as they did in the 1500's, but that shit still goes down. Why do you think iran is the way it is today? Remember who was in charge over there before? Guess who put him in charge...

[Pokernub]

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

[/quote]

LOL

Strange that from my perspective, 'radicalised' muslims and the american christain neo-conservatives look equaly mad

both belive in a god that isnt there, both dont tolerate minorites, both hold up some collection of texts written and complied by various men as the word of god.

The only differnce i can see is even a muslim leader is not stuipd enough to tell everyone God speaks to them. Like George Bush.

[martindcx1e]

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant since those times of evangelical mass murders.

Doing it in the name of religion has a certain extra feeling of evil that comes with it because such zealots actually believe what they are doing is morally correct. Now, doing it within the political game is a bit different. I'm not denying it's happened or happening nor am I saying it's right, but at least we know government politics is sinister no matter the culture.

The golf war (part 1 and 2) had very strong religious undertones, do you think this was unintentional? Do you not believe that there are a large amount of soldiers on the ground that believe they are doing the work of god at least to some degree? Its done with a lot more finesse on our side, but come on.

Sure colonization and the crusades dont happen as they did in the 1500's, but that shit still goes down. Why do you think iran is the way it is today? Remember who was in charge over there before? Guess who put him in charge...

Islam still has WAY more lunatics than other religion by far. That's all I'm saying. No one is arguing that no other religion has lunatics.

[martindcx1e]

Agreed 100%. Also, Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount, and it should not be tolerated by anybody like DaNuts is saying.

LOL

Strange that from my perspective, 'radicalised' muslims and the american christain neo-conservatives look equaly mad

both belive in a god that isnt there, both dont tolerate minorites, both hold up some collection of texts written and complied by various men as the word of god.

The only differnce i can see is even a muslim leader is not stuipd enough to tell everyone God speaks to them. Like George Bush.

you sound like rosie o'donnell. muslims believe God speaks to them just like Christians believe that. also see this...

Of course it doesn't, but the concensus feeling among the overwhelming majority of Christians is that the Christian funadamentalists that hold radical views are, for a lack of a better term, lunatics.

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In our politically correct society, minority groups are allowed certain liberties to say such things that a majority group simply could not get away with. Regardless of who the messenger is, no one should be allowed to spread such hate, and no one, irrespective of race or religious affiliation, should tolerate it.

[Pelion]

Even if Muslim leaders don't hold such views themselves, you don't see very many of them speaking out against such hatred. Muslims have been claiming they want acceptance, and in that interest you'd think there would be swift and very public denouncement of this type of behavior. The fact that Mulsim leadership seemingly turns a blind eye to blatant hatred and threats of violence is very disturbing to me.

In the UK people from the mosques dont get much air time but when they are on tv about this sort of thing it is usually to denounce this kind of hatred as being contrary to the teachings of islam. These people are crazy fanatics and they are a very small minority. The problem at the moment is that a decade of war and media focus on "scrounging immigrants" is radicalising people on both sides. Its important that people of all religions realise that muslim extremists, christian extremists, and racist parties like the BNP are a small minority and we shouldnt let them change the way we live our lives or the way we treat each other. Ordinary people should stand together against fundamentalists and racists alike.

b00st, I believe martin is talking strictly about the state of modern-day peoples. We're not talking about the age of the Crusaders or Conquerers here. I think the majority of the world, over all cultures, has become more civil, rational and tolerant since those times of evangelical mass murders.

He was talking about the modern world. I dont have time to dig up a full list of violent american/british-supported coups over the past centuary but in both Iran -1953 and Chile - 1973, democratically elected governments were overthrown and replaced by western backed dictatorships. Hardly the middle ages.

Of couse, they arent called terrorists when they are on our side.

There are just as many wars, civil wars and what not now as there have been for the past thousand years. The only thing more civilised about it these days is that we dont always have to look the person in the eye before we kill them anymore.

[Pelion]

Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount

Either that or its in the media more . Every group in society has it's nutters. Islam is no different. If you start treating them differently either here with racism, or abroad by...erm... bombing their countries then you probably will increase the proportional number of radical nutters, but in general I dont think there are any more morons who are muslim than from any other religion.

You'll hear just as many ignorant white people saying stupid things like "just nuke the bastards" or "Bloody Pakis" as you will hear muslims (or christians) talking about crusades and killing unbelievers.

[martindcx1e]

Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount

Either that or its in the media more .

doubt it. if ppl from other religions were car-bombing/suicide bombing ppl on a regular basis they would make the news on a regular basis. but ppl from other religions, for the most part, aren't doing that. crazed muslims bring the coverage on themselves, and i think the constant news reports of vicious attacks in the name of allah and islam shows that there are more crazies. more insane brutal attacks = more news coverage.

[Phantaroth]

If there is a disproportional amount of radical violent muslims, I imagine it is more of a geographic thing than a religious thing. I think it is pretty obvious that muslims living in good conditions in the western world with equal rights are more moderate than muslims growing up in a world that is in constant war / conflict, which a higher percentage of radical leaders who try and recruit young people via brainwashing.

The religion of Islam does allow for a violent interpretation, as does the old testemant. What anyone can or should do about that is kind of hard to say, we grant religious freedom.

[Pelion]

Outside of occupied palestine suicide bombings don't happen on a "regular basis". Inside occupied palestine they are far more sensibly described in a political context than a religious one. We arent talking about people blowing up "unbelievers" we are talking about people blowing up what they consider to be "invaders". Its true that they belive they are doing Gods work. Obviously that is the case for any religious fighter whether they are a suicide bomber, or a soldier in a traditional army who just happens to be religious. George Bush has said "God is on our side" hundreds of time since invading Afghanistan but his actions are based in politics far more than they are based in religion.

Suicide attacks are not restricted to muslims and they arent even the biggest users of them in recent history. The Japanese used them in the second world war. There have been a large number of suicide bombings in Chechnya since 2000. Before 2001 the majority of suicide bombings were done by the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. The Tamil Tigers are from mostly Hindu families but the group itself is very anti-religion in general. They certainly werent muslims. In fact, most of their targets were. Sri Lanka isnt a part of the world our governments are particularly interested in right now though so it wasnt particularly in the news. The point is that suicide bombings dont go hand in hand with religion or even with fanatical religion. They go hand in hand with desperation and political conflict. When ever people feel that they have no other effective way to fight, but suicide bombing has a chance of achieving their political objectives they will resort to it. Suicide bombings in the occupied territories are not designed to convert people to islam. They are designed to coerce the israli government into leaving palestinian territories. Thats a pretty secular political goal just like the goals of almost every other organisation that uses suicide bombers as a weapon.

[miracleriver]

The religion of Islam does allow for a violent interpretation

“And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter” 2:191

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74

“Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

“Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers” 9:14

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” 9:29

There is indeed no room whatsoever for a violent interpretation in islam!

[Phantaroth]

I said it DOES.

You misread?

[martindcx1e]

Outside of occupied palestine suicide bombings don't happen on a "regular basis". Inside occupied palestine they are far more sensibly described in a political context than a religious one. We arent talking about people blowing up "unbelievers" we are talking about people blowing up what they consider to be "invaders". Its true that they belive they are doing Gods work. Obviously that is the case for any religious fighter whether they are a suicide bomber, or a soldier in a traditional army who just happens to be religious. George Bush has said "God is on our side" hundreds of time since invading Afghanistan but his actions are based in politics far more than they are based in religion.

Suicide attacks are not restricted to muslims and they arent even the biggest users of them in recent history. The Japanese used them in the second world war. There have been a large number of suicide bombings in Chechnya since 2000. Before 2001 the majority of suicide bombings were done by the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. The Tamil Tigers are from mostly Hindu families but the group itself is very anti-religion in general. They certainly werent muslims. In fact, most of their targets were. Sri Lanka isnt a part of the world our governments are particularly interested in right now though so it wasnt particularly in the news. The point is that suicide bombings dont go hand in hand with religion or even with fanatical religion. They go hand in hand with desperation and political conflict. When ever people feel that they have no other effective way to fight, but suicide bombing has a chance of achieving their political objectives they will resort to it. Suicide bombings in the occupied territories are not designed to convert people to islam. They are designed to coerce the israli government into leaving palestinian territories. Thats a pretty secular political goal just like the goals of almost every other organisation that uses suicide bombers as a weapon.

don't islams believe they will be rewarded in the afterlife for killing themselves to slay unbelievers? i really want to know because i've thought this for a while, and if it's not true i'd like to know.

[martindcx1e]

The religion of Islam does allow for a violent interpretation

“And slay them (the infidels) wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter” 2:191

"Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory soon shall we give him a reward of great (value)" 4:74

“Seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

“Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, and heal the breasts of the Believers” 9:14

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” 9:29

There is indeed no room whatsoever for a violent interpretation in islam!

I said it DOES.

You misread?

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount

Either that or its in the media more . Every group in society has it's nutters. Islam is no different. If you start treating them differently either here with racism, or abroad by...erm... bombing their countries then you probably will increase the proportional number of radical nutters, but in general I dont think there are any more morons who are muslim than from any other religion.

You'll hear just as many ignorant white people saying stupid things like "just nuke the bastards" or "Bloody Pakis" as you will hear muslims (or christians) talking about crusades and killing unbelievers.

You have to remember that we're talking about a religion who's doctrine calls for armed combat in response to persecution. A large part of the problem is not simply the "crazies" but that the tenets of Islam support this kind of behavior.

For argument sake, ignore the actual people involved and instead focus on the religion itself. There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

[miracleriver]

I said it DOES.

You misread?

Oooops...my bad.

[Pelion]

There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

Theres a difference between killing people who believe different things to you and fighting back against oppression.

Yes There is a problem when your religion calls for you to kill "unbelievers". The vast majority of muslims dont believe this in exactly the same way that the vast majority of christians and jews dont believe it despite the old testiment calling for violence against unbelievers.

Killing "oppressers" is a totally different subject. I dont see how fighting back against oppression, lethaly or otherwise is wrong. Logic and morality would both seem to call for fighting against oppression to a reasonable degree where ever it is found. If you are fighting oppressors prepared to use lethal violence against you, then it logically follows that you should be prepared to use it against them. If that oppression is extreme enough (e.g. in nazi germany) then the response will need to be bigger aswell. Violence against the oppressors cannot be compared to violence against the oppressed. Fighting back against oppressors is exactly how the "civilised" world has been able to become civilised. We werent given democracy as a gift. Ordinary people fought violently for it against our monarchies and we were violently repressed for a long time. Every single improvment in the lives of ordinary people has been fought for. If you believe that fight is immoral then the "moral way" is for you to still be living under brittish rule in a dictatorship ruled by the divine right of a brittish monarchy with absolute power.

[Renton]

The world would be a much better place if my god would smite all of the Christians and Muslims.

[Phantaroth]

Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount

Either that or its in the media more . Every group in society has it's nutters. Islam is no different. If you start treating them differently either here with racism, or abroad by...erm... bombing their countries then you probably will increase the proportional number of radical nutters, but in general I dont think there are any more morons who are muslim than from any other religion.

You'll hear just as many ignorant white people saying stupid things like "just nuke the bastards" or "Bloody Pakis" as you will hear muslims (or christians) talking about crusades and killing unbelievers.

You have to remember that we're talking about a religion who's doctrine calls for armed combat in response to persecution. A large part of the problem is not simply the "crazies" but that the tenets of Islam support this kind of behavior.

For argument sake, ignore the actual people involved and instead focus on the religion itself. There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

Dueteronomy, Chapter 13 in the King James Bible mightttttttttt be worse then what is in the Kuran. Mostly because the various translations of the Kuran are kind of a bit different when it gets into those violent passages... I'd argue that some translations are much less violent then the translation that most westerners like to quote when citing Islam's call for violence.

[Pelion]

Deuteronomy 13 is pretty awsome. I encourage you to read all of it, but the bolded bits will do if you cant be bothered.

1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2 and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3 thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

6 ¶ If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 but thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12 ¶ If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

13 Certain men, the children of Be'li-al, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

14 then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

15 thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be a heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;

18 when thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

My other favorite passages are excerpts from joshua (chapter 6) - the fall of jericho when the followers of proper God did as they were told and punished the "unbelievers".

So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.

This is pretty lovey dovy christian stuff huh?

[thenonsequitur]

And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die

I found the wording of this statement to be particularly funny for some reason.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Islam has an inordinate amount of crazed, maniacal, vicious terrorists (who constantly spew hatred and act on their hatred) that sets it far, far apart from any other religion. I'm not saying no other religion has that. It's just that Islam has a ridiculously larger amount

Either that or its in the media more . Every group in society has it's nutters. Islam is no different. If you start treating them differently either here with racism, or abroad by...erm... bombing their countries then you probably will increase the proportional number of radical nutters, but in general I dont think there are any more morons who are muslim than from any other religion.

You'll hear just as many ignorant white people saying stupid things like "just nuke the bastards" or "Bloody Pakis" as you will hear muslims (or christians) talking about crusades and killing unbelievers.

You have to remember that we're talking about a religion who's doctrine calls for armed combat in response to persecution. A large part of the problem is not simply the "crazies" but that the tenets of Islam support this kind of behavior.

For argument sake, ignore the actual people involved and instead focus on the religion itself. There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

Dueteronomy, Chapter 13 in the King James Bible mightttttttttt be worse then what is in the Kuran. Mostly because the various translations of the Kuran are kind of a bit different when it gets into those violent passages... I'd argue that some translations are much less violent then the translation that most westerners like to quote when citing Islam's call for violence.

Ok, I'll give you that. Your argument doesn't hold well though since you don't regularly see Christians calling for murder. On the other hand, you regularly see the followers of Islam doing just that. I find it extremely hard to seperate the Islamic faith from violence when I see calls for beheading, massacre, murder, etc. all said in a religious context. It's not so much the doctrine itself but at the literal interpretation of it.

[Pelion]

You regularly see the followers of Islam calling for stuff like this because the media puts it on the news regularly. That doesnt mean it isnt a very small minority of people. The vast majority of muslims living in britain dont want to exterminate their neighbours. They dont make the headlines. I guess the press barrons feel that a headline like "local man isnt religious fanatic" wouldnt sell too many papers.
In the same way a very small number of Christians are constantly calling for the murder of "fags" or people who work at/ have used/ or live near abortion clinics or people who arent white. They arent in the media spotlight at the moment but if you dig around a little you will find them. Google something called the "KKK".

[Phantaroth]

For argument sake, ignore the actual people involved and instead focus on the religion itself. There is a fundamental problem when your religion calls for you to kill anyone that oppresses you.

Your argument doesn't hold well though since you don't regularly see Christians calling for murder

My head just exploded.

[miracleriver]

My other favorite passages are excerpts from joshua (chapter 6) - the fall of jericho when the followers of proper God did as they were told and punished the "unbelievers".

So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.

This is pretty lovey dovy christian stuff huh?

so Joshua was a christian? I supposed he belonged to one of the twelve christian tribes . LOL.

It sounds like quite an anachronism to me?

[martindcx1e]

You regularly see the followers of Islam calling for stuff like this because the media puts it on the news regularly. That doesnt mean it isnt a very small minority of people. The vast majority of muslims living in britain dont want to exterminate their neighbours. They dont make the headlines. I guess the press barrons feel that a headline like "local man isnt religious fanatic" wouldnt sell too many papers.
In the same way a very small number of Christians are constantly calling for the murder of "fags" or people who work at/ have used/ or live near abortion clinics or people who arent white. They arent in the media spotlight at the moment but if you dig around a little you will find them. Google something called the "KKK".

I doubt that it is just a case of the media picking on Muslims. Again, I'm not saying that no other religion has crazies. All I'm saying is that Islam has way more.

[fasin8ing]

What a bunch of genuinely nice folks.

I - Idiotic

S- Suicide Bombers

L- Licking

A- Assholes

M- Meticulously

[Harry]

It doesn't matter how many radical muslims you see on the news, it doesn't give you the right to stereotype them all as violent lunatics.

[givememyleg]

The media focuses only on the bad of anything anyway. Anyone taking anything to an extreme is of course bad, but there is nothing wrong with the moral principles of Christianity.

In the same way a very small number of Christians are constantly calling for the murder of "fags" or people who work at/ have used/ or live near abortion clinics or people who arent white. They arent in the media spotlight at the moment but if you dig around a little you will find them. Google something called the "KKK".

Yeah, look up the Phelps family. Incase no one has never seen it, here is the video when they were on Tyra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ24g...elated&search= (you can find the other parts on the side.)

Even if all religion was suddenly gone from the world, there will always be bad people, and will always be war.

[martindcx1e]

It doesn't matter how many radical muslims you see on the news, it doesn't give you the right to stereotype them all as violent lunatics.

i'm not

[boost]

its really said that you all believe that islam is way worse in terms of radicals than other religions. Like someone else said, the media has fooled you, gg.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

its really said that you all believe that islam is way worse in terms of radicals than other religions. Like someone else said, the media has fooled you, gg.

I'm not arguing that they're more radical. I'm arguing that they're more violent.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

You regularly see the followers of Islam calling for stuff like this because the media puts it on the news regularly. That doesnt mean it isnt a very small minority of people. The vast majority of muslims living in britain dont want to exterminate their neighbours. They dont make the headlines. I guess the press barrons feel that a headline like "local man isnt religious fanatic" wouldnt sell too many papers.
In the same way a very small number of Christians are constantly calling for the murder of "fags" or people who work at/ have used/ or live near abortion clinics or people who arent white. They arent in the media spotlight at the moment but if you dig around a little you will find them. Google something called the "KKK".

There is a huge difference between saying that homosexuals are going to hell and saying that homosexuals should be murdered. Don't confuse the two.

Radical stories make the news. It doesn't matter if the person is a member of the KKK, a Muslim or a Christian. These people aren't making the news because they're Muslim, they're making the news because they're saying/doing crazy shit.

Other groups make the news when they do outrageous things as well. During the seige in Waco, David Koresh made frontline news for almost two months. When a Christian fundamentalist kills a worker at an abortion clinic it's all over the news. In Alabama, a former sheriff's deputy and reputed KKK member was just in the news after being charged in connection with the kidnapping and murder of two black men over 40 years ago.

Yes, Muslims seem like they're in the media more than other groups. The media doesn't just cover stories like this that involve Muslisms though. It's the fact that Muslims are involved in a disproportionately high number of incidents that they're constantly getting the attention.

[martindcx1e]

You regularly see the followers of Islam calling for stuff like this because the media puts it on the news regularly. That doesnt mean it isnt a very small minority of people. The vast majority of muslims living in britain dont want to exterminate their neighbours. They dont make the headlines. I guess the press barrons feel that a headline like "local man isnt religious fanatic" wouldnt sell too many papers.
In the same way a very small number of Christians are constantly calling for the murder of "fags" or people who work at/ have used/ or live near abortion clinics or people who arent white. They arent in the media spotlight at the moment but if you dig around a little you will find them. Google something called the "KKK".

There is a huge difference between saying that homosexuals are going to hell and saying that homosexuals should be murdered. Don't confuse the two.

Radical stories make the news. It doesn't matter if the person is a member of the KKK, a Muslim or a Christian. These people aren't making the news because they're Muslim, they're making the news because they're saying/doing crazy shit.

Other groups make the news when they do outrageous things as well. During the seige in Waco, David Koresh made frontline news for almost two months. When a Christian fundamentalist kills a worker at an abortion clinic it's all over the news. In Alabama, a former sheriff's deputy and reputed KKK member was just in the news after being charged in connection with the kidnapping and murder of two black men over 40 years ago.

Yes, Muslims seem like they're in the media more than other groups. The media doesn't just cover stories like this that involve Muslisms though. It's the fact that Muslims are involved in a disproportionately high number of incidents that they're constantly getting the attention.

more insane brutal attacks = more news coverage.

I doubt that it is just a case of the media picking on Muslims.

[vqc]

its really said that you all believe that islam is way worse in terms of radicals than other religions. Like someone else said, the media has fooled you, gg.

are you talking about
past 5 years?
10 years?
20 years?
life on the history channel is pretty different from present day society.

[Pelion]

so Joshua was a christian? I supposed he belonged to one of the twelve christian tribes .

This stuff is taken from the bible. Last time I checked thats one of the main christian books. God's followers broke cities because God told them to. That God is the same God who christians worship now. Stop me if im going to fast for you.

It doesnt particularly matter if it happened before or after Jesus unless you are going to argue that God changed his mind at some point

There is a huge difference between saying that homosexuals are going to hell and saying that homosexuals should be murdered. Don't confuse the two.

Im not confusing the two and I dont really know why youd say that unless you are confusing them yourself.... Im talking about fundamentalist christians calling for violence against people who dont follow the word of God and instead decide to be homosexual or whatever else. It does happen and its even in the news sometimes. There have been, and still are christian terrorist groups who take it upon themselves to carry out Gods punishments in the same way that there are terrorist groups fighting for every major religion.

[Pelion]

What a bunch of genuinely nice folks.

I - Idiotic

S- Suicide Bombers

L- Licking

A- Assholes

M- Meticulously

^^ See you get ignorent crazies on all sides.

[bearcats05]

[miracleriver]

This stuff is taken from the bible. Last time I checked thats one of the main christian books.

I'd be curious to know what other main books do christians have/use/believe.

God's followers broke cities because God told them to. That God is the same God who christians worship now. Stop me if im going to fast for you.

At the poker table, no doubt, I'd have to ask you to slow down. But here, no worries.

It doesnt particularly matter if it happened before or after Jesus unless you are going to argue that God changed his mind at some point

The prophet of Islam claimed to come as a prophet in the lineage of the prophet of the bible; muslims actually believe and respect all the prophets of the bible. Are they then also responsible for the battle of Jericho in your book?

What I am arguing is that the battle of Jericho is part of the Jewish history and not the Christian history, and the two are distinct. Yet you blame christians as a group for an event that does not -- and could not -- belong to their history simply b/c they believe in the bible. It would be similar to me arguing that since germans who are responsible of the holocaust are europeans, the english are also responsible for it b/c they are europeans. If you have no problem assigning blame to someone for something they didn't do b/c they share the same believe than the person that did the deed, I hope you never server as a juror.

If you want to show how awful christians are, you would have a stronger case if you took passages from the "new testament".

[boost]

silly stereotypes like the numerous ones spewed in this thread are a huge player in the perpetuation of the very problems we are attempting to discuss.

Vincent, your question is weak, we are all poker players, I should hope we have atleast a basic understanding of variance.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

silly stereotypes like the numerous ones spewed in this thread are a huge player in the perpetuation of the very problems we are attempting to discuss.

It works both ways boost. I agree that most people are overvealous in their sterotypes, but dismissing issues for the sake of political correctness certainly augments the problem as well.

[Pokernub]

its really said that you all believe that islam is way worse in terms of radicals than other religions. Like someone else said, the media has fooled you, gg.

I'm not arguing that they're more radical. I'm arguing that they're more violent.

humm yes

how unlike our wise american freinds. State killings? Easy acsess to firearms? Obviously.

Starting more wars that, like, any liberal democracy ever. Yep.













































No really muslims are ALL bad, they are ALL 'nutters' like in the photos above (anyone with any subtextual inference ability would observe that eithier all muslims write in the same script and share a single black pen between them, or one, possibly two people went to the trouble of drawing them up) and there is no parralel with specfic neo conservative trends that foster a Christian morality as a backbone.

Understand that the world is shades of grey, perhaps try to think beyond what ANYONE has told you.

Yes, there are some nasty guys out there. Some of them are muslims. Some of them are not. Some of them are elites in the sociopolitical system of the most powerful modern state. Some of them are part of a cell based organisation that in between sitting in the middle of a fucking muontain range in uzbeckistan takes time out to persudae 17 year old kids to stick a load of ammonium nitrate in a van and drive it into something

[Pokernub]

Vincent, your question is weak, we are all poker players, I should hope we have atleast a basic understanding of variance.

and he goes and say one line what i spent...oh ...meh

[Pelion]

If you want to show how awful christians are, you would have a stronger case if you took passages from the "new testament".

Lol @ completely missing the point.

I dont want to show how awful christians are. I want to show how awful (the majority of) christians ARENT despite the fact that their holy book and history includes an awful lot of violence.

[Pelion]

What I am arguing is that the battle of Jericho is part of the Jewish history and not the Christian history, and the two are distinct.

You blame christians as a group for an event that does not -- and could not -- belong to their history simply b/c they believe in the bible.

I blame it on the followers of the God in the old testiment. People who follow that God today are either called christians or jews depending on what part of the world they grew up in. Christians arent labeled christians because they are decendents of the people who took jericho. They are labeled christians because they chose to follow the same god who ordered the fall of jericho.

It would be similar to me arguing that since germans who are responsible of the holocaust are europeans, the english are also responsible for it b/c they are europeans.

Lol no. It would be similar to arguing that since german Nazis are were responsible for the holocaust, then all Nazis are responsible for the holocaust no matter where they live in now. They still chose to believe the same stuff.

[boost]

[quote="Pelion"]

It would be similar to me arguing that since germans who are responsible of the holocaust are europeans, the english are also responsible for it b/c they are europeans.

Lol no. It would be similar to arguing that since german Nazis are were responsible for the holocaust, then all Nazis are responsible for the holocaust no matter where they live in now. They still chose to believe the same stuff.

lol if you knew anything about wwII history, you would understand how silly this is.

[fasin8ing]

Ok ... I have had enough of this thread.. Here lets do this..

How many Christian demonstrations were ever like this?

Catholic, Jewish, etc....

Im not one to stereotype.. But Muslim demonstrations arent really all that peaceful, educational, nor are they sane.. They have no clue what they want, why they want it, and why they are doing it.... I have nothing against freedom of religion or speech... But this is some meaningless bullshit from a bunch of wacked out people.. What are the objectives they are trying to achieve here? What are the goals of this demonstration? I really can see the point of some anti abortionists, womens rights activists, african americans, and so forth.. This makes no sense and once again this proves that Muslims are fricken kooks.

For the good hearted Muslims...... Why would you let your fellow followers do someting like this to bring shame on your religion? You would never see Christians doing something like this because all of them would oppose and furthermore they do not stand for it.

Pelion no disrespect .... But why would you want to be part of something that is so meaningless? This isnt religion, these are extremist extorting their personal belief's using religion as a shield. For what reason do they not like Westerners anyways?

[Phantaroth]

You would never see Christians doing something like this because the vast majority would oppose and furthermore they do not stand for it.

uhhhhhhhhhh....

[fasin8ing]

You would never see Christians doing something like this because the vast majority would oppose and furthermore they do not stand for it.

uhhhhhhhhhh....

FMP

[miracleriver]

Christians arent labeled christians because they are decendents of the people who took jericho. They are labeled christians because they chose to follow the same god who ordered the fall of jericho.

Lol @ your indirectly saying that Jews are christians. Now while the converse is certainly true, such a statement makes it rather obvious that you don't have a clear understanding as to what is a christian -- not that you necessarily care.

Lol no. It would be similar to arguing that since german Nazis are were responsible for the holocaust, then all Nazis are responsible for the holocaust no matter where they live in now. They still chose to believe the same stuff.

If this is closer to your original argument, as you seem to say, then lol @ your *implication* that Jews and christians believe the same stuff, and/or that judaism and christianity is the same thing.

Abstracting both our "comparative" arguments, yours calls for 2 groups to have a same beliefs to share responsiblities for an event -- in your example, beliefs in the tenets of national socialism. Mine calls for 2 groups to have some commonalities -- in my example, being european. Mine clearly requires weaker premises than yours. Your original argument is based soley on the common belief in the old testament. Now, unless you are actually arguing that tenets of judaism and christianity are equivalent, I stand by my comparative argument being closer to your original argument. You are, of course, free to disagree and I have a feeling you will, lol.