$10NL How to play this?

[Pants_101]

The Opps who are still in on the turn are unknowns. Please comment on my play

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($2)
UTG ($10.95)
UTG+1 ($3)
MP1 ($10.65)
MP2 ($4.35)
MP3 ($8.75)
CO ($9.20)
Button ($14.50)
Hero ($9.35)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, K. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, MP3 calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.70) 4, 9, K (7 players)
Hero bets $1, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls $1, MP3 folds, CO calls $1.

Turn: ($3.70) 7 (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, MP2 raises to $3.25, CO folds, Hero calls $0.75.

River: ($10.20) T (2 players)

Final Pot: $10.20

[jyms]

Fold preflop, and that's not a joke.

[cardsman1992]

I don't know if I can fold getting 11:1 preflop......and I would be looking for this exact flop, or trip 4s, or flush draw.

That being said, OOP and two people in the pot calling your bet=trouble. I would shut down on turn unless my magic card came. I think you see K9/KJ alot here....

[jackvance]

fine

[StageWhisper]

That being said, OOP and two people in the pot calling your bet=trouble. I would shut down on turn unless my magic card came. I think you see K9/KJ alot here....

Does this mean you would check the turn and fold to shorty's less than pot-sized push, or that you want to see what CO does first?

[Khabbi]

I think this hand played well when CO got out of there.

As suggested, I might check the turn and fold if CO calls shorty's push. With CO folding, I'm calling there.

[Pants_101]

Thanks guys. As was said I had such good odds pf and a hand that can play multiway so I called. On the flop with so many players I'm expecting a flush draw or a king to want to play so I overbet the pot. On the turn though I'm not sure what to do. I thought I was probably ahead and so I bet again, but perhaps as some of you said a check OOP against 2 opps is more prudent. As it happened shorty had slowplayed KK and had top set so that was that. Don't think I could have folded to his push if I had checked. As an aside on the turn is it better to try to force the CO out and showdown against shorty or is it better to keep him in so even if shorty beats me I might make money against the CO? I assume it's better to get down to one opp?

[bigspenda73]

Fold preflop, and that's not a joke.

[Pants_101]

Hmm seems to be some disagreement on this hand Maybe if people could explain the factors they are considering when making the decisions it would make more sense to me

[bigspenda73]

Don't put yourself to marginal postflop decisions by playing hands out of position that do so.

Your postflop skills are not strong enough to have to play a hand like K4s well out of the SB.

[Khabbi]

On the flop you should bet an amount that forces other players to play incorrectly. Over-betting the pot should be chasing away flush draws and getting you further committed to the pot.

Bigspenda - How can you say he doesn't have the skills to play K4 well out of position at $10NL? Wouldn't his skill be relative to the players he's up against. The way that villain won that hand begged for a bad beat, that's the kind of skill we need to compare with here...

Of course he doesn't have mad skillz, he's still playing $10NL and learning the game. With your skills, how would you have played that hand? At what point did it scream to you that villain slow-played KK on the flop against 5 players with a flush draw out there.

I think this hand was well played by OP and was just a bad outcome this time. Villain could have had any range of hands from AA-22, AK, KQ, DJK, KT, that don't even make sense some bottom 2 combinations, T9, etc.

I'm probably losing to shorty here the way he played it. If he keeps playing KK like that into multi-way limped pots, he's certainly going to give back more than he'll win in the long run.

[cardsman1992]

That being said, OOP and two people in the pot calling your bet=trouble. I would shut down on turn unless my magic card came. I think you see K9/KJ alot here....

Does this mean you would check the turn and fold to shorty's less than pot-sized push, or that you want to see what CO does first?

.

Actually both. CO's decision would definitely affect me. If he bets, I have to assume I'm beat. If he checks, and shorty pushes, then you are getting slightly over 2:1 on your call.. The question then becomes....do you believe you are good here more than one third of the time? If so, it is a profitable call. If not, then then you can fold. If you are up against a set, you have 7 clean outs. This is roughly 15% of the time. Are you ahead another 20%?

I don't think you are good here often enough. Not saying I could find a fold in the heat of battle, though.

He sucks for limping KK at $10, fwiw.....

[bigspenda73]

With your skills, how would you have played that hand?

Fold preflop, and that's not a joke.

[bigspenda73]

IF I had played this hand I'm felting it. Too many players at this level get married to TPGK.

[zook]

I think this is fine. I'm completing the SB with K4s after 2 limpers let alone 5. I like the flop overbet, although it could even be a little more with this many players. I probably c/r big instead to catch more dead money.

[bigspenda73]

K4s is a reverse implied odds hand at $10nl.

Unless you promise me you are not getting a lot of money in without trip 4s or a flush then I just feel like it's not a hand worth playing.

[zook]

I dunno man, he lost 40BB to a guy who limped KK. He probably would have limped AA/AK too and hero would have won this pot. At 10NL, I would assume top and bottom pair is the nuts, esp against a shorty.

[bigspenda73]

Zook you have the luxury of knowing you would be playing this hand at the least relatively well.

For someone grinding $10nl FR I have my doubts...

Here is how I blew through $10nl in 10k hands ($140 to $550)

1. Play very tight...15/10 will do
2. TPTK should be felted at all expenses
3. If there is an obvious hand your opponent has it
4. Don't forfeit edges just to play postflop with these guys
5. Have rakeback + bonus

see you at $25nl

[Pants_101]

I think this is fine. I'm completing the SB with K4s after 2 limpers let alone 5. I like the flop overbet, although it could even be a little more with this many players. I probably c/r big instead to catch more dead money.

I didn't think of the C/R at the time, however on reflection I'm not sure I would do it, I often see multiway pots check around as those with not much want to see more cards and those who hit big are frantically slowplaying. If you can frantically slowplay Then again if the trips had bet then called a big C/R I could slow down on the turn more easily. I'd hate to give so many limpers a free card though. Tricky.

[quote ="bigspenda73"] Zook you have the luxury of knowing you would be playing this hand at the least relatively well.

For someone grinding $10nl FR I have my doubts...

Here is how I blew through $10nl in 10k hands ($140 to $550)

1. Play very tight...15/10 will do
2. TPTK should be felted at all expenses
3. If there is an obvious hand your opponent has it
4. Don't forfeit edges just to play postflop with these guys
5. Bonus and rakeback[/quote]

Let me first say I'm not at all offended by having my skills questioned, I know I'm a bit of a donk But I want to get better and as long as people give their reasoning behind their criticisms then it's useful infomation. Thanks for your $10NL tips, whilst I'm keen to make money rather than lose it I could roll myself to play higher but it seems a bad idea until I gain more experience. So here I am playing at $10 and trying stuff out basically. I'm willing to put myself into somewhat marginal situations to learn to play better without costing myself much. Of course I don't want to keep making boneheaded plays and I need to recognise which situations are actually marginal. I suspect at some stage soon I'll start to play as you recommend and hopefully win consistently and then I'll think about moving up. Meantime I'll keep posting hands! By the way I don't bluff much but I have had some success representing flushes against someone weakly betting top pair, I assume it's still part of the game at these limits but you have to pick your opps.

If anyone cares I run at a rather ridiculous 30/10 over 5.5k hands and am up 3 buyins (having been up 8 ) I'm starting to realise I should play tighter

[jyms]

Hitting a miracle flop ( and 2 pair is not one of them) out of the SB when completing after several limpers will not happen enough to a NooB $10NL player enough to give him Carte Blanche to complete. Knowing how to read boards and understanding what is a great hand , not just a good hand is not something that is doable when starting out at $10NL. Trust me, I was there, and not long ago. Basically, SB play for this level is Raise good hands huge since your playing the rest of the hand out of position. If your SB hand doesn't warrant 6xBB then don't play it, you can't ask someone learning the game to play drawing hands, marginal holdings or even decent hands on scary boards out of position at these stakes, Even the players your playing against don't give accurate enough information to play hand like this. Two hand slike this a night is a buy in lost. And rarely will you win big with said plays.

[jyms]

If anyone cares I run at a rather ridiculous 30/10 over 5.5k hands

yea, full ring?? I'd half that. Start running 15/10

Sorry I'd like to add, your not playing $10NL to try stuff out. It's like go cart racing, you don't try going 200MPH because the track, equipment and you are not ready to handle it. You are at $10NL to grind a roll the way it needs to be done, by playing the way it works. ABC. Even at $50NL right now, you think I'm trying stuff that Gabe does, becasue when I get to $1KNL I want to be able to play that way. It's not winning poker. Play winning poker, at $25NL you will need to adjust to that game, not try things that will work at $100NL.

Play winning poker and grind the roll, get to the next level and start all over again, rinse & repeat.