When Taggs Fight Back

[Genitruc]

1)

Pretty sure villain is pissed at me 3-betting him. I've never seen him 4-bet before, only flat-calling (w QQ-AA) and shoving (w 99-JJ/AK).

His flop bet says "don't wanna price myself in". Stack sizes seemed just right for this move :

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: gllsdlz ( $325.95 )
Seat 4: nipe1955 ( $238.60 )
Seat 6: Mimmi2Gab ( $337.19 )
Seat 2: HERO ( $226.20 )
Seat 3: LugnaNerDig ( $202.10 )
Seat 5: klarmanAtze ( $208.60 )
LugnaNerDig posts small blind [$1].
nipe1955 posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO [ 7h 8h ]
klarmanAtze folds.
Mimmi2Gab folds.
gllsdlz raises [$6]
HERO raises [$21]
LugnaNerDig folds.
nipe1955 folds.
gllsdlz raises [$54]
HERO calls [$39]

** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 4c, 3h ]

gllsdlz bets [$66]
HERO is all-In.


2) Villain is way too aggro, always overbets the pot. He waited for about 15 seconds before betting flop. Again, stack sizes seemed just right.

AK anyone??? :

Seat 3 is the button

Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: HERO ( $346.95 )
Seat 6: Paris_Hilton69 ( $241.50 )
Seat 4: tdjacko222 ( $124.11 )
Seat 2: andros46 ( $90 )
Seat 5: TCDeadly1 ( $34 )
Seat 1: slavko72 ( $93 )
tdjacko222 posts small blind [$1].
TCDeadly1 posts big blind [$2].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to HERO [ Jc Ad ]
slavko72 folds.
andros46 folds.
HERO raises [$7]
tdjacko222 raises [$17]
TCDeadly1 folds.
HERO calls [$11]

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, 9h, 8d ]

tdjacko222 bets [$42]
HERO is all-In.

[IowaSkinsFan]

it'd be nice to have some sort of draw.
idk

[sauce123]

Hand 1- first thing I would raise less preflop with 87hh in position, reason being you are turning your hand into almost a complete bluff when called as played as you will be against almost exclusively bigger pairs and AK which is an ugly spot.

Given reads on villain you have the dubious honor of seeing AA or air here quite a lot imo... or 33 and you can shoot yourself in the face... but I like flop push and I REALLY like it if you think he will fold AK.

Hand 2 is marginal at best. I find when shortys raise less than 3x ur raise they want a call baaaaad. pot odds dictate a call pre but shortstack donkish tendencies dictate a fold on flop unless you have a clear read on villains bet sizing/ranges. And no, I wouldnt be surprised to see you get called by any pair here cause shortys r crrrrazzzy.

Sauce

[DaNutsInYoEye]

I dislike both hands.

Hand 1. You're putting 1/4 your stack in with 7,8. You're rarely going to see a flop you like. Even when you flop an OESD or FD you're still going to be at best a coin flip against his range. Just fold. You're essentially playing your hand as a bluff the entire way. If you get called on the flop you're going to be drawing extremely slim. At least give yourself some outs.

Besides, his flop bet really isn't that small. In 3-bet, and even more so in 4-bet pots, c-bets are going to be proportionately smaller.

Hand 2. If villian always overbets the pot as you say, wouldn't he have a hand here as often as he doesn't? I don't like the stack sizes for this anyways. When you push he is getting 3:1 on a call. I don't see him folding any over pair or a flush draw. I think he also looks you up with AK more often than you think. Even if he puts you on TT-QQ he is getting very close to the right odds. If he factors in that you're bluffing/semi-bluffing here even a small percentage of the time then I think you're severely overestimating how hard a decision you're giving him if he does indeed have AK.

Again, if you're called, you're nearly always way behind. There aren't many likley scenarios where your jack is live except for if he has TT. You have to think that aces are tainted fairly often as well.


I just really don't like making moves like this in 3-/4-bet pots unless I already have a good idea of how the villian plays in re-raised pots.

[Genitruc]

thx for replies guys

Both spots were just more about knowing that villain's ranges were wide and finding the right flop to exploit that (obv I'm shooting myself in the foot if ppl have overpairs here...).

In the first hand, the important thing for me was that I sensed villain was aware (capable of making moves but also capable of folding a hand from time to time) and not necessarily sitting on a big hand (I obv wasn't calling the 4-bet for any kind of value or implied odds since there were none...).

Also, put yourself in his shoes : what does it look like I have?

Hand 2 was just someone who always c-bet around 150% pot.

Feeling pretty confident that his range is much bigger than AQ+ and big pairs on my button raise (since I'm raising all the time in LP), I get to stack off when he does have a big pair but pick up almost 1/2 his stack the 66% of the time he misses the flop. Also, I get to fold flops I don't like...

[Fnord]

Hero is trying to make-up for bad calls with aggressive pushes.

[jackvance]

Is this for image? Can't ever be +EV to do this imo.. putting 1/4 of your stack in the middle with 78s for the sole reason of bluffing at the pot later?