gamble it up for 220bb?

[benny999]

this happened soon after winning my biggest ever pot with the nuts vs 2nd nuts (different villain).

i have been pretty active in small pots especially in LP, 28/20ish, but showing big hands in every large pot.
SB is a pretty good tag, 19/16, and has reraised me with a SC before. he cbet then shut down on a dry Q high board. he hasn't been reraising a lot this session though.

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1./$2.
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:


UTG: $159.90
CO: $193
Hero: $926.35
SB: $434.60
BB: $228.45

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 5 5
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, SB raises to $34, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 4 3 2 ($70, 2 players)
SB bets $50, Hero raises to $144

what do you think? would you ever just fold pre flop, or on the flop?
I thought calling would suck since I wouldn't do that with a big hand, and didn't feel like folding, so I raised about the same size as the recent pot i had the nut str8, thinking I'd be comitted if he pushed.

[Genitruc]

My feeling is that he can call you down much lighter overpair hands on this board than a dry one.

I can see him making a crying call with JJ/QQ here whereas they'd be pretty basic folds on different boards (since you can obv be playing XcYc aggressively here).

Also, since you only have 10 outs vs an overpair I tend to draw a line somewhere. It's one thing to get it in aggressively flipping for stacks when you have fold equity. It's another to look at getting it in as a 20% underdog for 220 bb's (this is a significant hit you're taking in EV).

However, it's not clear that villain only has QQ-AA type hands. You may be leading here vs big cards. Or you may be getting great implied odds to call.

Here's why I'd call :

-if villain has big cards, he's only 22% to win the hand. It sucks when we flat-call and he hits a KQ type hand on the turn, but oh well.

-We are obviously betting any ace or any 6. Sometimes the ace hitting will kill our action (vs other overpairs) but the odd time he has AA and we spike the 2 outer, it'll be very very hard for him to put us on a 5 and laydown top set.

We're also very likely getting paid off by other overpairs when the 6 falls. A 5 is a sick card, but we'll be in position to deal with it when/if it falls.

Despite all this, I probably play the hand the same way you do in the heat of the moment. NH. Btw you're not folding to a push I hope...

[benny999]

for some reason I didn't really consider the hands he'd fold...just that he would fold SOME times and I'd have 25-40% to win other times. but your right, he's mostly folding hands I already beat, like SCs or AK.

the thing that bugs me is if I call, it's easy to put me on like 55, medium overpairs, or maybe bare clubs. and if the turn is a 6 or ace, and I put in a big bet, he probably folds. I guess that's debatable though, so calling sounds better than I thought at first. still not totally sure I like it better than folding, but now sounds better than raising vs this guy.

btw- ya i called his push, which was almost an insta shove, and made me tank since I didn't have odd against his AA. he held up - doh. kind of sad but funny that I won a ~$900 pot, then gave it right back a few hands later. not next time though...

[Genitruc]

meh no big deal live and learn

and you're right that calling makes your hand very transparent.

[gabe]

you playd it fine

[Renton]

i did this for 200bb one time when i was almost sure that he would call.

I was stuck like 1k at 2/4 that day and i was on semi-tilt, so i took at 40/60 for 800 dollars to try to come unstuck. Obviously i lost the hand gg.

[Genitruc]

i did this for 200bb one time when i was almost sure that he would call.

I was stuck like 1k at 2/4 that day and i was on semi-tilt, so i took at 40/60 for 800 dollars to try to come unstuck. Obviously i lost the hand gg.

blackjack next time?

[Renton]

i did this for 200bb one time when i was almost sure that he would call.

I was stuck like 1k at 2/4 that day and i was on semi-tilt, so i took at 40/60 for 800 dollars to try to come unstuck. Obviously i lost the hand gg.

blackjack next time?

it was really weird. we were 200bb deep together, and he made an oversized raise pre with what looked like a big hand (i put him on AA a good% of the time), then i flopped a 654 board with my 77. He overbet the pot again on the flop and i thought SURELY, IF I RAISE HERE, CONSIDERING HOW OBVIOUS IT IS THAT HE HAS A BIG HAND, HE MIGHT ACTUALLY FOLD!?!?!!!1

So obviously i commit/called.

[Genitruc]

hey Rent I'll post it here just in case you don't check sauce123's 101010 hand again where I mentioned this :

any chance of a linky to the hand where you flopped JJJ on KJ10 (2 diamond I think) board OOP multiway? There was a discussion about leading vs c/r and gabe made what I thought was an awesome post. Not sure if you remember this or not but if you do, any chance of linky-linky?

thx

edit : sry for hijack benny

[benny999]

I don't remember the hand you mentioned but it reminds me of a 2+2 post - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=5354245

one of the most helpful parts imo..

Dead Money:

This again is VERY important and a point overlooked regularly. You want to take the line that traps the most dead money in the pot. E.g. Let’s say that UTG raises, and gets 3 callers, you call in the SB with a suited connector, BB fold. You flop an OESFD. If you lead out, and the PFR raises, then the 3 callers inbetween will all fold. If, however, you check, the PFR bets, then hopefully a few of the players inbetween will call with a draw/weak TP or whatever, and when you then C/R, you trap all of their money in the pot.

The opposite of this is also true. I.e. you call the button’s raise in the SB and 3 others also call it, then it’s best to lead out, as you trap the most dead money in the pot that way.

[Genitruc]

benny I think the problem with this line is that if you're only doing this w monsters then you're ending the action right there vs thinking players

edit : forget what I said, OP specifically mentions doing this w big draws rather than monsters, notably against donks.