You call it's gonna be all over BABY

[bigspenda73]

Play this correctly? Villian is a total looney toon 90/18 and a calling station. I know he cannot fold A high to me as he stacked me on a Tc7h5c board holding AKo against my Ac8c all in to a flop 3bet. I'm a bit tilty but this is like the 6th time out of 6 that he has 3 bet me PF. He is putting his stack on the line A LOT.

I've been getting in a lot of pots with him trying to get my stack back. The river has to be a perfect card for me.

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10./$0.25.
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $25
CO: $24.40
Button: $93
SB: $24.18
BB: $19.32

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with J 9
Hero raises to $0.85, CO folds, Button raises to $2.9, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 6 6 9 ($6.15, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 9 ($6.15, 2 players)
Hero bets $3.25, Button calls.

River: 6 ($12.65, 2 players)
Hero is all-in $18.85...

Results:
Final pot: $50.35

[NLHE lahooozaher]

I like it alot esp. if you've been tilty. I would like it normally to.

[IowaSkinsFan]

yeah versus these guys easy.

[sauce123]

yup

[jyms]

Ya he's calling it all or folding to anything so go for it all. If he has the 6 you have to pay it off.

[bigspenda73]

He never has a 6 here BTW.

[jackvance]

People never fold boats right?

[bigspenda73]

2 things i know, he doesn't have quads or an overpair.

Against this player I think Im maximizing my EV by just shoving this river. Hell, at this level it probably looks more like a play to these guys than anything else. Is this the correct reasoning?

[bode]

as played, i shove the river. this is a fold preflop though since you are OOP.

[elipsesjeff]

5 handed i fold this twice preflop.

[bigspenda73]

It's not a PF discussion. The table dynamic was perfect. There was the megafish with the huge stack and 3 tighties. Im trying to iso this guy every chance I get.

[gabe]

It's not a PF discussion.

you said "Play this correctly? "

preflop is part of your play and you played PF incorrectly. there are better "strategies" preflop for battling huge fish.

[bigspenda73]

PF decisions aren't what Im focusing on. Its postflop play. I raised the hand knowing i was going to get 3popped. Sounds bad but I wanted to get in pots like this for this very reason.

He called with air obv.

[drmcboy]

PF decisions aren't what Im focusing on.

I raised the hand knowing i was going to get 3popped.

[bigspenda73]

Maybe its from the limit background. I really want to get 3popped and play a HU pot with this guy.

[benny999]

I would limp pre flop because you expect to be 3bet, have a crap image, and someone who never folds, but too much potential if you hit the flop to open fold.

as played I think it's so marginal that I'd gamble pre flop too, because it's <10% your stack, and you get the chance to be 200bb deep vs the maniac.
normally I'd fold though because being oop sucks in big pots without good hands or reads.

[koolmoe]

Maybe its from the limit background. I really want to get 3popped and play a HU pot with this guy.

This is muddled thinking. You're OOP with a mediocre hand and you *know* you are going to be put to the test. You'll have to fold the flop a lot. You want to give away 1/10 of your stack every time you get a mediocre hand OOP?

I've been getting in a lot of pots with him trying to get my stack back.

Translation: I'm on tilt.

There was the megafish with the huge stack and 3 tighties. Im trying to iso this guy every chance I get.

Effective stack is still 25. You are in really bad position to be continually playing with this guy, as he'll have position on you 50% more often than you'll have position on him. Why are you trying to isolate OOP?

[koolmoe]

PF decisions aren't what Im focusing on.

Translation: Don't get in the way of my thinly-veiled brag.

This thread belongs in Tales of Poker.

[jackvance]

Yeah limp/call next time.

[bigspenda73]

If I limp he limps, if I raise, he raises.

The guy had 75 offsuit for god's sakes.

I call mid PP's for 1/10th my stack sometimes. There just a speculative as this one. If I miss this flop I top off, if I hit any piece of it I know Im getting a lot of the money in (see his turn call). The guy's WTSD was like 50%.

I really just wanted thoughts on the river action. It's the first time I've been able to value shove a river.

[gabe]

you call mid pps because you have implied odds.

when someone is reraising you in position with 75o you dont have the same type of implied odds.

[jackvance]

I call mid PP's for 1/10th my stack sometimes. There just a speculative as this one.

Big diff between pps and unpaired cards.. A pp will make a lock hand (set) 11% of the time.. J9s will make 2p or better less than 5% of the time, more often you'll miss, or end with some pair crappy kicker or a draw.

[swiggidy]

when someone is reraising you in position with 75o you dont have the same type of implied odds.

Delete the first line and this is a great Fnordish post

[koolmoe]

The guy had 75 offsuit for god's sakes.

Position assumes a much greater value in LHE than NLHE. Also, because of implied odds and the ability to put pressure on your opponent, the value of 75o (or any two, really) on the button is greater in NL than it is in LHE. It's a big mistake of limit players to put too much emphasis on preflop hand selection and ignore/deemphasize position.

I call mid PP's for 1/10th my stack sometimes. There just a speculative as this one.

No, PP's are much better because you will make a lock hand with a relatively high frequency, and if you don't like the board texture, you won't have a lot of incentive to continue. With J9s you will often flop a draw or second pair, and you have a tougher decision whether to continue.

If I miss this flop I top off

What difference does that make?

if I hit any piece of it I know Im getting a lot of the money in (see his turn call). The guy's WTSD was like 50%.

And yet you check the flop. That's a terrible play since your hand is very vulnerable. Even when you hit one of two cards giving you make the second nuts on the turn, you barely got in more than you had invested preflop. Some implied odds, huh? If the river blanks, do you really think that he's calling any bet with two pair, 7 kicker?

I really just wanted thoughts on the river action.

The river is the least interesting street.

It's the first time I've been able to value shove a river.

That's why this thread belongs in Tales of Poker.

[bigspenda73]

IDK, my main reasoning for getting involved (no it wasn't tilt Moe) was to get as deep as possible. Look at the guys stack. That's $93 of potential winnings and I have a small timetable. Fish like this just don't stick around forever. If someone as this table was going to take his money I wanted to be the one to do so. It ended up paying off BTW. I stacked him again about 10 hands later.

[zook]

bigspenda: You're getting a lot of good, free advice in this thread. You should bookmark it and come back when you're ready to listen.

[bigspenda73]

All the advice is sound and what I've heard in the past. I just feel it's a situationally dependent PF decision.

I now know it is a spew, no doubt. I understand it and at the time I probably did not. To assume I am not listening is rather insulting. I am merely stating my case as well.

The fish have dried up tremendously and the fact that he was the only player at the table over a 30 VPIP I felt necessary to get into pots with him before he left. I now know that was a poor decision.

You all are telling me things I had previously realized(except for the implied odds with 75 thing). I probably should have just posted this in the NLT&P book discussion but it's like 7 weeks past that chapter.

I almost didn't post this because I knew my PF decision would get flamed. I just wanted a discussion on the river. Im betting nearly 150% of pot after nearly potting the turn. My hand has to look like a 9 so I am wondering how much value there is in shoving this hand or just merely value betting it.

[koolmoe]

Im betting nearly 150% of pot after nearly potting the turn. My hand has to look like a 9 so I am wondering how much value there is in shoving this hand or just merely value betting it.

You bet about half pot on the turn.

Your hand also looks like an Ace or maybe 77/88, and he read your bet as trying to steal half the pot obv.

[benny999]

what do you guys think of making a bad (for the hand in isolation) play just to get 200bb deep before the maniac leaves?
or is it just too much of a leak even taking that into consideration?

[mcatdog]

To assume I am not listening is rather insulting. I am merely stating my case as well.

You did nothing wrong in this thread. Some people seem to think that if an OP states his case and there's a bit of a back-and-forth, that shows that the OP is ignoring everyone's advice, but that's 100% wrong IMO. I'm guessing you got more out of this thread than you would have gotten if people had just said "fold pf" and you'd said "ok" and then the thread had ended.

I just wanted a discussion on the river. Im betting nearly 150% of pot after nearly potting the turn. My hand has to look like a 9 so I am wondering how much value there is in shoving this hand or just merely value betting it.

The reason this is an easy shove is that horrible players always think you're bluffing when you make a big bet on a board like this one, or a board like 56789, they always think you're trying to steal a split pot. They call a shove about as often as they call a pot-sized bet so when you actually have a monster you should shove.

You should also bet more on the turn too, at least $4, so that the river doesn't need to be such an overbet. This player is always going to call you down here with ace high.

[zook]

To assume I am not listening is rather insulting. I am merely stating my case as well.

Sorry man, I didn't mean to be insulting.

[bigspenda73]

To assume I am not listening is rather insulting. I am merely stating my case as well.

Sorry man, I didn't mean to be insulting.

I know your intention was not to insult me, however, I'd rather not be pegged as someone that doesn't take advice well b/c I actually do and I really need it right now.