2/4 HU

[Alexos]

I always tended to avoid HU mostly because I have no experience at it, but this time I decided to stick around. Do I fold the turn here? Call river, fold river, shove river??

Villain is Tag-laggish

Full Tilt Poker
$2/$4 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
2 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

[color:black]Stack Sizes[/color]
Hero (BTN): $633.3
SB: $446.8

[color:black]Preflop:[/color] 8 5 ($6, 2 players)
[color:red]Hero raises to $12[/color], SB calls $8

[color:black]Flop:[/color] A 7 A ($24, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

[color:black]Turn:[/color] A 7 A [6] ($24, 2 players)
SB checks, [color:red]Hero bets $18[/color], [color:red]SB raises to $78[/color], Hero calls $60

[color:black]River:[/color] A 7 A 6 [4] ($180, 2 players)
[color:red]SB bets $180[/color], [color:red]Hero raises all in to $545.30[/color], SB calls all in for $180.80
Uncalled bet of $184.50 returned to Hero

[sauce123]

nh but bet flop

[Ravageur]

i think i fold the turn, checking the flop is fine caus we have runner runner flush ANd straight zomg deception. And we can check the flop with trips too. No need to push him off hands here, we can win it on the turn and river and plus we can make the best hand. Maybe I just like disagreeing with you tho sauce.
Definitely go all in on river though, it's HU after all.

[sauce123]

this is like the optimal flop to cbet ur hand on so do it

[Genitruc]

NH.

edit : about this being a "good flop to c- bet" :

maybe it's just cuz I usually check-call or check-raise this flop w J, Q and K high almost always... but this seems like the worst flop ever to c-bet, esp HU if villain is remotely tough.

[Genitruc]

deleted (wrong thread lol)

[IowaSkinsFan]

I don't mind folding the turn but meh calling is cool too.

[Ravageur]

what's so good about this flop in terms of c-betting?

[sauce123]

We have absolutely nothing and he is also pretty likely to have nothing. However, we have an 8 high nothing with little to no chance of improvement (LOL runner runner) and so getting raised costs us about 0 in terms of ev, but when we take it down we gain a ton.

Also if we decide to make a move as in rebluff if we think he C/R bluffs overs here then we also dont lose value turning our hand into a bluff- cause it already is. Sauce.

[Ravageur]

We have absolutely nothing and he is also pretty likely to have nothing. However, we have an 8 high nothing with little to no chance of improvement (LOL runner runner) and so getting raised costs us about 0 in terms of ev, but when we take it down we gain a ton.

Also if we decide to make a move as in rebluff if we think he C/R bluffs overs here then we also dont lose value turning our hand into a bluff- cause it already is. Sauce.

LOL RUNNER RUNNER!!! how dare u insult runner runner. he is a viable option and should always be considered in all situations.

That aside, obviously a c-bet isn't bad here or anything, but I like a flop check and turn bet here a lot because not only can we also rep a big hand (like when we overbet the river regardless of what it is) but our hand won't always be a bluff. We can also raise the turn which looks strong to his turn lead etc.. Just seems like checking the flop gives us so many options to win more money later on in the hand, regardless of if we hit runner runner.

[sauce123]

how does checking the flop rep a big hand? If I had any pair here I would cbet it with the intention of inducing a CR bluff and/or protecting my hand from overs. I think checking here says- I'm scared you will push me off my hand so I want to see what you do on the turn.

[Ravageur]

how does checking the flop rep a big hand? If I had any pair here I would cbet it with the intention of inducing a CR bluff and/or protecting my hand from overs. I think checking here says- I'm scared you will push me off my hand so I want to see what you do on the turn.

checking the flop doesn't rep a big hand true, but it "can" rep a big hand depending on how you play later streets. my point was only that you give yourself more options on later streets by doing so, whereas by betting the flop you usually just either end the hand there or give up on later streets if called (or you can make an elaborate high variance bluff etc..).

Anyway, I acknowledge and understand your point of view, but I think both are viable My flop agression factor is super low and grows progressively on later streets (not sure if this is standard for most 6max players) so I lean towards extracting value on later streets with deceptive hands etc (i.e. TPTK checked on flop 2nd pair gk etc. ) anyway, interesting discussion.

[sauce123]

yea i guess. my AF is completely opposite like 5 on flop 2.5 on turn 1.9 on riv.

And ummmm I do have a certain weakness for elaborate high variance bluff/rebluff/rerebluff shoves. Ugh.

[zenbitz]

I like the check behind because of the runner-runner outs. If you really had no other way to win (like 83o) then may as well lead out. Sometimes I will check behind with an A, too.

[bair]

i like it..but im pretty sure i just call the river cuz it looks like 66.

[Alexos]

It was A4.

[zenbitz]

lolcooleraments