TPTK facing all in on flop

[dsmrolla06]

Just got moved to the table, have no reads on villain.

Stage #684214388 Tourney ID 1471367 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $1600 - 2007-03-20 13:06:53 (ET)
Table: 6 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 1 - DEEZEO ($17150 in chips)
Seat 2 - ELCTRAGLIDE ($7340 in chips)
Seat 3 - THE_PUMA ($31495 in chips)
Seat 4 - MTOLLEYM ($62385 in chips)
Seat 5 - CHARLESB329 ($14260 in chips)
Seat 6 - MAV_007 ($35800 in chips)
Seat 7 - DSMROLLA006 ($33075 in chips)
Seat 8 - RANDALLVK ($40890 in chips)
Seat 9 - LIVVY56 ($20605 in chips)
MTOLLEYM - Posts small blind $800
CHARLESB329 - Posts big blind $1600
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to DSMROLLA006 [10c Ad]
MAV_007 - Folds
DSMROLLA006 - Raises $4000 to $4000
RANDALLVK - Calls $4000
LIVVY56 - Folds
DEEZEO - Folds
ELCTRAGLIDE - Folds
THE_PUMA - Folds
MTOLLEYM - Calls $3200
CHARLESB329 - Folds
*** FLOP *** [10h 4s 3c]
MTOLLEYM - Checks
DSMROLLA006 - Bets $8000
RANDALLVK - All-In(Raise) $36790 to $36790
MTOLLEYM - Folds
DSMROLLA006 - ????

[chardrian]

wheeeeeeee mtts are fun.

Your opps likely range includes 33-AA; 56; TJ+. Anything else is just a bluff.

You are beating lots of hands in that range (55-99; TJ-TK), you've got 5 outs against others (JJ-KK); and are dominated by everything else (33,44,TT,AA).

I don't mind a fold, but I think I call here and make a note if I'm crushed.

[uscheese]

I'd hate to fold here but I probably would...could be a trap

[chardrian]

I'd hate to fold here but I probably would...could be a trap

I have absolutely no idea what this means.

How can this be a trap?? Hero bets flop and villain pushes... where's the trap?

He needs to call 20k to win a pot of about 70k (pot was laying him about 5:2). So he needs to be ahead here a little less than 30% of the time for the call to be +EV.

I don't know what stage of the tourney this was in, so I am only basing my decision on that. I think he is ahead here 30% of the time.

[drmcboy]

At unknown table this is an insta fold for me pre flop here in EP.

As played I don't see how you can fold here with no read - as Char said lots of hands love this flop that you beat, plus many opps would try and get more mileage out of a set on this board.

Char, I think the trap would be pre flop if he called with a big pair.

[uscheese]

I'd hate to fold here but I probably would...could be a trap

I have absolutely no idea what this means.

How can this be a trap?? Hero bets flop and villain pushes... where's the trap?

He needs to call 20k to win a pot of about 70k (pot was laying him about 5:2). So he needs to be ahead here a little less than 30% of the time for the call to be +EV.

I don't know what stage of the tourney this was in, so I am only basing my decision on that. I think he is ahead here 30% of the time.

I probably didn't say that right...I'm tired and I pretty much come off as an idiot anyway...I meant that maybe the guy had KK or AA and was hoping to get some action and after seeing the unders on the flop decided it was time to go.

Regardless of what I said...if you walk away now you've still got what? 20,000 chips?

I think with no reads I'd have to fold personally

[drmcboy]

unless you're some crazy ICM wizard who can calculate the value of your remaining stack on the fly, folding just because you have XYZ amount of chips makes no sense. You should call if you think it's +EV, and fold if not.

[chardrian]

I agree with drmcboy on all counts.

[uscheese]

unless you're some crazy ICM wizard who can calculate the value of your remaining stack on the fly, folding just because you have XYZ amount of chips makes no sense. You should call if you think it's +EV, and fold if not.

Yea this is probably why I've been losing my shirt lately.

[Sprayed]

Considering the range of villain and the price, I would call. I agree with dr that the call preflop is suspect. I don't like it. Question, there's no antes at this site?

[dsmrolla06]

This was the FT of about a small $5 tournament on AP. There was a $100 ante at the time. For some reason i had a gut feeling he hand jacks because i couldnt see any other hand playing like this unless it was a set, which also killed me. After thinking for awhile i layed it down and he ended up showing 66. After seeing him play for about 10 min or so this would have been an instacall for me because of the hands i was seeing him call down and raise with.

[Sprayed]

Yikes! He made that play with 66? Too bad you didn't have these reads prior.

[chardrian]

A flop of T hi is a pretty good flop for 55-99 here. It's not that weird or really that bad of a play.

[dsmrolla06]

Yikes! He made that play with 66? Too bad you didn't have these reads prior.

Thats what i was thinking. If i would have seen just one orbit from him i would have called all day.

[Sprayed]

A flop of T hi is a pretty good flop for 55-99 here. It's not that weird or really that bad of a play.

Nope, not horrible nor out of the ordinary.

[Fjaman]

I see this type of play everyday especially in lower buy ins MTTs, they have a pair with a reasonbly good flop and think its gold, pushy pushy, if they hit tp decent kicker its also pushy pushy, if they flop a set they usually play it way way way to slow

[Wikkiwikki]

Easy fold...

[johnny_fish]

Instacall, you're only screwed vs. good players.