3-bet Pots OOP

[Genitruc]

These are probably yawn-worthy. My apologies… Just wondering how standard or overaggro these look :

Hand 1 :

Villain is a losing player, 20/9/2, completely unremarkable. He’s not a prolific 3-better… :

- Genitruc sitting in seat 1 with $222.70
- Challe50 sitting in seat 3 with $216.15
- Percyworld sitting in seat 4 with $428.13
- SHEVA7JMM sitting in seat 6 with $68.80 [Dealer]

Genitruc posted the small blind - $1.00
Challe50 posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to Genitruc:
Percyworld folded
SHEVA7JMM folded
Genitruc raised - $7.00
Challe50 raised - $22.00
Genitruc called - $22.00

** Dealing the flop:
Genitruc checked
Challe50 bet - $44.00
Genitruc went all-in - $201.70

Hand 2 :

Not many reads. Villain has played a cpl orbits, running at 18/15. My image is aggro :

- erlend_a sitting in seat 1 with $396.66
- vivianne45 sitting in seat 2 with $115.04
- dr_dude sitting in seat 3 with $82.50 [Dealer]
- Genitruc sitting in seat 4 with $194.00
- joa sitting in seat 5 with $132.05
- meinertsen sitting in seat 6 with $203.81

Genitruc posted the small blind - $1.00
joa posted the big blind - $2.00
** Dealing card to Genitruc:
meinertsen folded
erlend_a folded
vivianne45 folded
dr_dude folded
Genitruc raised - $7.00
joa raised - $22.00
Genitruc called - $22.00

** Dealing the flop:
Genitruc checked
joa bet - $22.00
Genitruc raised - $110.00

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Hand 1: ummm, way over-aggro

Hand 2: fine

[Genitruc]

Guess I have no option besides calling the flop in hand 1 and let him draw to overs?

[IowaSkinsFan]

you could lead the flop pot on hand 1.

[dsaxton]

Hand 1: ummm, way over-aggro

Hand 2: fine

This seems backwards. I think hand one is good and hand two a bit overly aggressive. I would much rather check-call in hand two.

[Galapogos]

In hand #1 against this player I'd lead the flop and shut down if he doesn't fold.

For hand #2 I agree with dsaxton.

[Genitruc]

Interesting.

I never considered leading hand 1. Don't we want AK/AQ to bet?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Interesting.

I never considered leading hand 1. Don't we want AK/AQ to bet?

I think we're behind here way too much to want to play for stacks.

Hand 2: Raise less? What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[andy-akb]

1) I think this is fine. Do we play this any differently if we opened UTG and are raised by like UTG+1 or CO?

2) I pitch this PF. We are OOP and not getting odds for a set. Even if this were a button open against a sb 3bet, I think I fold most of the time unless they have been getting out of line simply because our odds arent that great. The fact that we are OOP makes this more of a fold IMO. As played, Im just calling the flop and probably not putting any more money into the pot. Our hand has value right now but witha bet like this we are often going to see a Q or something like a FD. We are ahead of the FD and not getting any more value out of it and are behind the queen and arent getting a fold.

[Genitruc]

I'm surprised hand 2 seems overaggro...

It's a blind war, board is super draw-heavy, meh AK could look me up (lol not playing 25/50 yet!).

For the betsize, I figured my hand was likely best but also there was a chance I'd fold out 99/JJ ; since he was a shorty and any bet commited me to the pot I just put him AI.

Hand 1 (JJ) seems kind of shitty to me but I don't see what kind of options I really have. If I'm folding or bet/folding this flop then I suppose folding preflop is optimal (set value is weak with these stacks).

If it's an UTG raise and I'm in the blinds I'll usually just flat call preflop (vs someone who's only opening 10% raising utg) and flat-call flop and lead a safe-turn.

I guess it's just a shitty spot. Leading still seems bad to me.

[Galapogos]

Hmmm, didn't realize Hand #1 was a blind war. I'm still pretty sure I don't like it though. The thing I don't like is to get more money out of AK post-flop is you have to essentially commit yourself against a hand that has you crushed. I'm not one for the number crunching, but I'm pretty sure putting your whole stack at risk to get $44 extra from AK when you could be losing $200+ from QQ+. Correct me if I'm wrong of course!

[sauce123]

Hand 1: his widest 3betting range possible with those stats is AQs+ JJ+ and I would guess more along the lines of AK+ QQ+ and possibly the dreaded KK+. Basically meh, the preflop call is alright if hes not very aggro and will frequently check a missed AK + if u hit a set you stack the big pairs, if he plays all of his hands decently aggro u prolly have to fold pre which sucks, but i donno if i would as it wouldnt be a huge mistake to call.

Hand 2: I actually dont mind this at all as you get some better hands to fold and a decent part of his range is missed overs. I would probably just raise slightly less and it accomplishes the same thing and u can shut down when called.

[Genitruc]

thx for replies

Galapagos I think you're spot on for the JJ hand (well, pretty much everyone is actually). The need to protect vs overs hitting the turn/river isn't sufficient justification to shove an extra 130ish$ in the pot. I hated this hand as it took place.

I guess that vs this player, in this spot, JJ = 22?

[Cocco_Bill]

Challe50 is an account shared by at least 3 people(10 tabling) and is mostly played on Prima skins with juicy raked hand races. My friends played such a race taking 4 shifts playing 24/7 sharing tables against him constantly. They lost the race, but Challe50 lost about $10k during the race while my friends aveaged about 4ptBB/100(about $20k ) 10 tabling. At least one of the players on this account is horrible and cant handle the heavy multi tabling.

I know sharing accounts is against the rules, but Prima doesn't seem to care.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I guess that vs this player, in this spot, JJ = 22?

pretty much. The thing is genitruc, i'm not sure AK is in his range anymore after he bets the flop. Does this guy cont bet 3-bet pots with overs against a very aggressive player like you? Probably not.

Some opponents don't even loosen up even if you are taking his BB a lot

[zenbitz]

I like 2 better than 1. 1 just seems like you will never get a call from a hand you beat.
But "yeti rule" - 3 bet on paired/dry flop is always a bluff.

Both these hands are blind wars. If you thiink that villians are opening their ranges because of this, would anyone consider 4-betting pre-flop?

What about a smaller raise in hand 1? Fishing for a push from QQ+, and a fold or bad call from overs.