Broadway flop, lots of action

[griffey24]

Hey guys,

This hand happened last night in a live home game. Though I don't want anyone's decisions on what to do in this spot to be on the fact that its a "home game".. and ppl suck there! The people involved in this hand were all solid, and all online players of 100NL +

Stacks:

0.25/0.50 NL

UTG: $57
MP1: $320 <-- by far chip leader
MP2: $67.50
Hero in CO: $172 <-- by far second biggest stack

Hero is dealt [X X]

UTG limps $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 limps $0.50, MP2 limps $0.50, 1 fold
Hero raises to $2.50
3 folds
UTG, MP1, MP2 all call

Flop (~$10)
dealing flop: :Ks: :Qs: :Js:

UTG, MP1, MP2 all check
Hero bets $8
UTG raises to $20
MP1 thinks and calls $20 <-- flat call on this board?? weird...
MP2 pushes all in for $65
Hero??

Hero had one of these hands, but what do you do in each case:

1) :Kh: :Kc:
2) :Qh: :Jc:
3) :As: :Kh:

[Pelion]

wtf? I already replied to this once. Oh well here goes again...

1) harsh. Dunno still thinking. You said they are "solid" so can we assume they dont call preflop with AT (or at least UTG and MP1 dont). So you're only really afraid of the flush. You probably have to at least call because if you are behind you probably are going to have odds to fill up if you are behind. That said, I think we are behind here alot. QQ and JJ seem very unlikely given the preflop action. I think Id call, hope UTG called and then cry if MP1 pushes. Really shitty spot though.

2) Easy fold with bottom 2.

3) Fold it with 1 guy allin and 2 who have shown interest left to act. The last thing you want is to call and then have the big stack push. Also the fact that so many players have shown interest might suggest someone already has a flush and at least some of your spade outs could be dead.

[sauce123]

i shove 1 and 3 fold 2

[griffey24]

wtf? I already replied to this once. Oh well here goes again...

1) harsh. Dunno still thinking. You said they are "solid" so can we assume they dont call preflop with AT (or at least UTG and MP1 dont).

Ok well by solid I meant more like, I wouldn't expect some fishy overcall on the flop with like the 9 of spades or something. They aren't fish.

But the way the game was playing, it was definitely a limp limp limp raise call call call kinad game. Lots of raised pots went multiway as all the limpers were calling raises, and with every call the later limpers were getting better odds.

I don't know if we can really disregard any hands, cause anything would be possible here. But I agree that JJ, QQ, KK or AK from these guys is unlikely, given the limping.

[zenbitz]

clearly 2 is a fold.
1) I don't see the point of pushing - the only guy we are worried about is MP1 and the only hands we want to push out are naked spade draws. I don't think he has that so I just call.

3) is close between push/fold. We have to push to play here because people might fold if 4th spade hits. We have somewhere between 6-12 outs. I don't think we are ever ahead. I am leaning towards fold here because none of the villians can be making a play with AXs - so they must be ahead of TPTK, right? Pot odds = call, except for MP1 who looks to have us crushed, although we have to have a few outs (except vs 9Ts).

I kind of think MP1 has at least the nut flush here with the flat call, or if you have the As, he has a straight flush (9Ts) or maybe a low flush with Ts.

[sauce123]

lol zenbitz y would anyone slowplay on this flop ever??

[zenbitz]

lol zenbitz y would anyone slowplay on this flop ever??

Because they have the straight flush. Also, not everyone is ape-shit aggro. Also, this hand is so wierd because of two big stacks and 2 small ones.

Also, I dunno, I just can't figure out the big stack cold call here.

[griffey24]

This hand was actually pretty interesting, especially after all the hands were shown.

It might be more interesting to consider how the other players played given their hands in this spot.

UTG check-raised with 103 of spades for the flopped flush, and OESFD

MP1 flat called with A10 with no spades. What do we think of this flat call?

MP2 pushes with 910, bottom straight, no spades.

Hero has QJ and folds, but would have had a tough decision with AsK or KK

[sauce123]

yea i think KK is an easy shove but AsK can be a fold as well.

good thread

[griffey24]

yea i think KK is an easy shove but AsK can be a fold as well.

good thread

So is the reason we would rather push with KK than AsK, that we think some of our spade outs (some.. or a lot) are already dead, and we have a better chance at filling up?

[sauce123]

kind of- but more its the (kind of slim cause of pf) possibility of set over set or having another 2 pair hand crushed. And we cant be counterfeited.

[zenbitz]

Also - if we have the As, then that rules out one of the other bozos making a play with a naked nut frush draw. I would say that shifts their ranges to more straights+flushes that are ahead of us right now.

I *guess* MP1 with the nut straight no draw is going to call-fold if you push. He's just not worried about the short stacks.