JJ 3-bet by tagg, 170bb deep

[zook]

Villain is 18/14/4.5 over a bunch of hands, mostly mined. We haven't tangled since he sat down a few orbits ago. He 3-bet me once before and I folded.

I'm going to start with my first decision and move on from there...

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($682.50)
Button ($399.70)
SB ($344.05)
BB ($465.90)
UTG ($380.50)
Hero ($693.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J.
UTG calls $4, Hero raises to $20, CO raises to $70, 3 folds, UTG folds, Hero...

[minSim]

Without history I would fold. And I like a 4-bet more then a call

[gabe]

call, stacks are deep and price is right, nm you are ahead here some

[ShowMeAtlas]

Without history I would fold. And I like a 4-bet more then a call

4bet? Did you see his stats?

[sauce123]

4bet= huuuge spew

fold= ok, with 100 BB stacks

call= what u need to do here. sets against 18/14=profit

what sucks is that u r likely going to be calling a flop bet on a dry flop with JJ unimproved OOP and if ur 18/14 guy is any good hes gonna be triple barrel shoving here and u cant call... but luckily hes probably not and hell check/check AK on turn and river....

[AHiltz]

What are your stats since he might have mined you as well?

[cardsman1992]

I call and set mine here.

[zook]

AHiltz: My stats are 26/19/3, but I doubt he has many hands on me (unless he mines 1/2) b/c I've only played ~500 at 2/4 6max.

Thanks for the input, next decision...

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J.
UTG calls $4, Hero raises to $20, CO raises to $70, 3 folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $50.

Flop: ($150) T, Q, 6 (2 players)
Hero...

[cardsman1992]

I think I check fold here, but it might be weak. You are ahead of AK and that might be it, and if it's AK spades you are in deep crap. Not to mention if you hit your J you might fill his straight.

[sauce123]

i check call here just about always- only problem is if he is smart enough to double barrel AK here for sure cause then if he makes a psb on turn ur behind his range- however, what if he only makes a psb on turn with exactly AK, QQ and checks for pot control with KK and AA.... OMG this could be interesting!!! lol. so actually i think you can check fold here if he plays this tight and plays well as you are check/shoving a big draw/set here always most likely and so u get brutally outplayed if hes decent.

[IowaSkinsFan]

i check call here just about always-

the guys an 18/14, if his threebet range is AQ+, TT+ the only thing we're beating on this flop is AK and you check call?

I'm starting to think you're unable to adjust to nits.

[zook]

More decisions to come, we've got c/c and c/f on the table...

[silu73]

I hate these spots. I would definetely call pre-flop but check/fold the flop against this opponent.

[|~|ypermegachi]

he's got a high aggression rating. what does that mean?

HE FOLDS A LOT!

aggression = bets to fold.

if you're folding, you're increasing your aggression rating too.

i donk 2/3 pot here. so...$100. and probably not any more money into this hand unless i spike a J on the turn, in which case i'm still not betting for value since we truly are afraid of AK on the turn.

[griffey24]

he's got a high aggression rating. what does that mean?

HE FOLDS A LOT!

aggression = bets to fold.

if you're folding, you're increasing your aggression rating too.

i donk 2/3 pot here. so...$100. and probably not any more money into this hand unless i spike a J on the turn, in which case i'm still not betting for value since we truly are afraid of AK on the turn.

umm.. I suppose you could look at AF this way... folding instead of calling. But I think most would say his AF means that he's BETTING a lot and RAISING a lot.

So by donking here, I'd imagine you'll get raised here very often, which is the last thing we want.

[silu73]

donk betting is bad here. a thinking villain would raise and we would have to fold.

[zook]

he's got a high aggression rating. what does that mean?

HE FOLDS A LOT!

aggression = bets to fold.

if you're folding, you're increasing your aggression rating too.

Ummm... I'm not sure I follow. Aggression factor is calculated by (Raise % + Bet %) / (Call %). So folding post-flop should have no effect on your aggression factor. An example... over 100 hands you've bet the flop 40 times, raised 10 times, called 10 times. (40%+10%)/10% = AF of 5. The next 100 flops you fold. Now your bet % is 20, raise % is 5, call % is 5. (20+5)/5 still = AF of 5. Am I missing something?

Since most people seem to think I should c/f here, and I didn't, I'm just going to post the rest of the hand for a general line check...

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, J.
UTG calls $4, Hero raises to $20, CO raises to $70, 3 folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $50.

Flop: ($150) T, Q, 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $100, Hero calls $100.

Turn: ($350) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: ($350) K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $125, Hero folds.

After the turn check behind, I really felt like he had a whiffed AK, maaaybe AQ or KK looking for pot control. Unfortunately the river came and I didn't think I had a choice but to c/f. This hand sucked.

[bode]

so it looks like that AK was pretty spot on.

i like ISF's post. Unless he is 3-betting light, his range is def. TT+, AQ+ and you beat nothing but AK. I c/f this flop almost 100% of the time and i fold the river as played.

[IowaSkinsFan]

shove river

[Numbr2intheWorld]

i check call here just about always-

the guys an 18/14, if his threebet range is AQ+, TT+ the only thing we're beating on this flop is AK and you check call?

eh, i know an 18/14 at 200NL on stars who three bets 43s and absolute junk here a lot. 3-betting ranges and vpip/pfr can really differ.

The point is irrelevant though becuase without history that's probably a good range to put him on... i just wanted to make the point.

shove river

i'd rather not do this if i've never played a 3-bet pot with this guy but i like your thinking

[bigspenda73]

shove river

Is it bad that this never crossed my mind?

I need to start at least exploring more aggro plays.

[Galapogos]

shove river

I really like this. But still, I don't like doing this unless I know he can fold top pair in a 3-bet pot.

[|~|ypermegachi]

somehow i thought that the total number of hands was calculated into AF. guess i'm wrong. damn i'm having a bad day.

[IowaSkinsFan]

This just smells a ridiculous amount like thin value with AK.

[zook]

This just smells a ridiculous amount like thin value with AK.

I agree. But given my line, I don't see how he finds a fold. Maybe if I open push river for $500, repping a missed turn c/r. I dunno, c/f flop is the best line I guess.

[Genitruc]

I wouldn't do it against a strong player, but calling flop and leading a low turn isn't terrible