A-2 - A-K Preflop

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

I just wanted to write something about i like to play Ace-x hands preflop, since i feel i play well with them. Writing posts like this also helps me to actually think about why i am doing what i am doing.

I will be grouping the hands and then explain approaches i take with them in various preflop situations.

Assume 100BB stacks unless stated otherwise, the table is 6 handed, and without specific reads on your opponent(s). I also play a generally TAGGy style.

1). A-2o - A-9o


Weak offsuit Aces are a pretty crappy starting hand on the whole. I would reserve playing these hands for opening on the CO/BTN, as these hands do play reasonably well when in position and heads up. I would practically never 3bet with these hands, as they don't do well in reraised pots against typical 3bet calling ranges.

I would never call a raise, in or out of position, with a hand like A-6o. These hands don't really draw to many straight/flushes, and realistically flopping trips with your kicker is the only made hand that you will have almost no doubts about playing for stacks with.

2). A-10o, A-10s, A-Jo, A-Js


I generally avoid opening these hands in early positions as well. I do not value bet and lay down correctly frequently enough that these hands are +EV for me when i am out of position. However if the table is playing very tight, then i will open these hands in early positions (as well as other hands like K-Js). While these hands typicall don't play very well out of position, at a table where no one is contesting your raises you can steal the blinds/small pots safely. And, unlike at a regular table where you may have a tough time folding TPGK if raised on the flop, it would be very easy to do so at a tight table.

However, with these hands, folding is not your best and only option when faced with a raise. If i am faced with a UTG/MP raise from most players, i would often call against a loose opener and often fold versus a tight opener. If i am faced with a CO/BTN raise from most players, i would often 3bet a loose opener and call versus a tight opener. When i am in position against a late position opener (includes SB), i would 3bet more often. As a suited Ace of the same rank is stronger than an offsuit once, i would 3bet more often in the same situation if the Ace were suited.

As you might have noticed, overall, these hands are highly opponent dependent.

3). A-Qo, A-Qs


I would open A-Q, regardless of suit, from any position at just about any table. I would sometimes call a raise from an early position opener if the opener was loose and would likely be opening a hand like A-10/A-J. I would also consider calling a raise from the blinds if the opener were in late position. In both cases, i would be attempting to disguise the strength of my hand and get additional value from a weaker Ace, as well as induce an aggressive opponent to fire mulitple bets into me on what should be a scary board to my range. It's okay to fold to a very tight players' raise in early position.

I do usually 3bet when faced with a raise though. As A-Q does play reasonably well in a 3bet pot, so i will often call a 3bet as well and will almost always play for stacks if i flop top pair or better.

4betting A-Q is almost always worse than calling/folding to a reraise. I elaborate on that idea in the next section.

4). A-Ko, A-Ks


I will open this hand from any position at the table and i will 3bet an open raise from any position from nearly any player. You don't have to worry about someone having a better kicker than you, so you can value bet your top pair hands much harder on safe boards. I don't prefer to limp my strong hands, basically since i don't limp anything else. Even if i were going to try to slowplay a strong hand preflop (by just calling a raise if i knew someone behind me was addicted to squeezing, for example), i would prefer to wait for K-K+ to do so. The next paragraph does help to explain why.

While A-K is a very strong hand, it is one that actually has the most equity before the flop. This is because A-K is essentially a drawing hand and so, like a flush draw, it's equity is best the quicker the money gets into the middle. That's why 4betting A-K is often preferable to calling a reraise.

However, if your opponent will only continue past a 4bet with K-K+, you are better off calling a reraise as your hand has more value in a 3bet pot. By 4betting A-K against this type of opponent, you would be effectively turning your hand into a bluff (like 4betting A-Q in a typical aggressive game at 100/200NL). Another situation in which 4betting A-K is often not the optimal play is when the stacks become deeper. I would say if your stack is >125BB's, you are better off calling a reraise with A-K than 4betting. This is because your opponents range for calling/5betting a 4bet will be tighter and you will be less likely to get all the money in preflop with a positive expectation.

Fnord demonstrated (in the comments below) how A-K can also be used as a trapping hand against the right opponent. (It also made me realize how my whole post is a lot less valuable when i don't really mention how to deviate from it versus different types of opponents but anyway... lol)

When you are playing against an opponent who will c-bet 100% of the time on Ace/King high flops in reraised pots and often follow up with a turn bet, you can consider trapping with A-K by just calling a 3bet. Even on non Ace/King high flops, you can still occasionally go all in on flops where you have a backdoor straight/flush draw as well as overcards (25-30% equity). Ideally, you would semibluff all in when your opponent is known to c-bet into reraised pots with a very high frequency, or you have been very quiet at the table.


5). A-2s - A-9s

I like these hands almost as much as i like A-K, because you can do a lot of different things with a low suited Ace. I usually open these hands in late position, but at an aggressive table with a lot of reraising i would sometimes open these hands in early position to balance my 4betting range.

One concept i learned from FTR member sauce soon after i wrote this post was the idea of squeezing often being a better option than calling behind one or more players who have already called a preflop raise. Sometimes calling is going to be the best option though. For example, if you have been 3betting a lot at the table recently and your 3bet isn't likely to have as much fold equity, then calling is going to be a better play. Also, if the original raiser has a low PFR and you are unlikely to fold out much of his opening range, then just calling is going to be better. Overall, i would say that i 3bet/call with these hands with a similar frequency.

I would 3bet with these hands versus an opponent who is opening from a later position. Most players who raise from the CO/BTN are doing so with a pretty wide range, so you have a little more F.E. with your 3bet versus these raises than a raise UTG. But good players will know this, so just be careful that you haven't been too wild at the table to encourage them to call you too often. But even if you do get called, you usually have multiple ways to win the best hand (flop a big draw or top pair or bluff).

You can also sometimes 4bet with low suited Aces. When your opponent is 3betting a wide range, for example, but has only shown down K-K+ in all in preflop pots, 4betting low suited Aces on occasion is going to show a nice profit. Besides folding out a vast portion of nearly any players 3bet range, low suited Aces have pretty good equity against typical 4bet calling ranges. Also, because these hands are not good to call with in 3bet pots, you aren't losing any equity in a 3bet pot you might otherwise have by calling. A less quantifiable benefit to occasionally 4betting these hands is that you discourage your opponents from 3betting you so often.


I just revised nearly every section, so there is probably some new content. If you have a suggestion/criticism point it out and, if it's good, i will go back and change it.

[Silly String]

One question: Do you lose a lot of 3bet pots to AK when you 3bet AQ so much? If you stack off anytime you hit top pair, it would seem you'd run into more AK's than AJ or worse.

Also the part about not 4betting AK as you get deeper is very good. I do this, but would not have explained it nearly as well.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

One question: Do you lose a lot of 3bet pots to AK when you 3bet AQ so much? If you stack off anytime you hit top pair, it would seem you'd run into more AK's than AJ or worse.

Also the part about not 4betting AK as you get deeper is very good. I do this, but would not have explained it nearly as well.

I will sometimes lose a big pot with A-Q to A-K when i play it in a 3bet pot, but there are also times when i will get my stack in on a Q-x-x flop against 10-10/J-J, or even sometimes on an A-x-x flop. And A-J will still pay me off sometimes too (not to mention other random garbage people will 3bet/call 3bets with). I have a very aggressive image postflop amongst most of the regulars i play with, so i don't have too hard of a time getting paid off by worse hands

[varena]

excellent post! may i ask what stakes u play 6 handed?

cheers

[Silly String]

Varena, it seems he is currently playing 100-200NL.

So to clarify: Felting AQ 100% of the time when hitting TP is +EV for you long term?

[IowaSkinsFan]

AJ and AT: The whole "outkicked" reasoning is dumb because most reraise AQ+ in which we are most always folding to reraises when we raise from EP with AJ/AT.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

excellent post! may i ask what stakes u play 6 handed?

cheers

thanks! Like sillystring says, i have most recently been playing 100-200NL.

So to clarify: Felting AQ 100% of the time when hitting TP is +EV for you long term?

In a 3bet pot with reasonably sized stacks, i believe so.

AJ and AT: The whole "outkicked" reasoning is dumb because most reraise AQ+ in which we are most always folding to reraises when we raise from EP with AJ/AT.

I can't argue with that. I went back and revised my post with a few other ideas as well.

[Miffed22001]

sooted aces rule, unsooted ones do not.
<AJ is teh spew, unless stealing and not even good then.

My db says this to me every day

[Clar17y]

What do you do with AK if someone shoves over your 4-bet?
Call and hope it's a 50/50?

And just to clarify Iowa's post, is it ok to open AJ-AT in early position and then just fold to a 3-bet?

Is opp just calls from LP and an ace hits do you fire every street or check/call turn?

Clar

[IowaSkinsFan]

What do you do with AK if someone shoves over your 4-bet?
Call and hope it's a 50/50?

And just to clarify Iowa's post, is it ok to open AJ-AT in early position and then just fold to a 3-bet?

Is opp just calls from LP and an ace hits do you fire every street or check/call turn?

Clar

At lower stakes, it may not be good to call 4bets with AK, because threebetting is normally pretty tight, it really depends on your reads.

Yes, it's perfectly fine to pen AJ/AT in EP and fold to a 3bet, its standard.

Last question is too vague and opponent dependent, although normally if we have a high aces and we pair it we go for three streets of value as long as we don't have someone raising us.

[Clar17y]

Thanks Iowa that's really useful

/Me takes another look at Sauce's guide to 6-max too oO

Clar

[Miffed22001]

my games suggest that any 4bet = AA only, and that KK/QQ stacks off on a flop without an ace in a 3bet pot.

I so hate how the games i play in play so differently from the US sites. Sucks dick.

[breathweapon]

A few points,

1) Cold calling with AK

3Betting AK in 6Max is not automatic, because 6Max is a game where people are given a license to open, re-raise and over bet AQ, AJ, AT, AXs and KQ. When you 3Bet AK in 10Max, you're isolating your opponent and giving him folding equity. This is important, because there are more people and tighter ranges to consider. When you 3Bet AK in 6Max, you're getting AQ, AJ, AT, AXs and KQ folding equity, which is an inverse spew, because you could have got them to ship their stack on an Ace/King high board or sacrifice a CBet to a re-raise/float. You're giving AK, QQ-JJ the odds to push, losing Ace vs KK implied odds and you'll never be overrun by Aces or Kings pre-flop and the odds of pair vs set post-flop are trivial. If your opponent sets you, then it should be easy to weed it out.

I make more $ cold calling with AK in position than any other hand in 6Max, I've made so much $ that I'm even considering cold calling with AK out of position. When people tell me that KJs, KJu and KTs are UTG hands in 6Max, AK becomes a trapping hand for me.

2) Suited Aces are not another reason to re-raise, Suited Aces are another reason to call.

I understand that Suited Aces are + EV and that in a coin flip situation you want to get your money in with Max EV, but just because two cards are suited does not give you a license to over play your hand pre-flop, it's a warrant to see the flop. Suited Aces can turn into monster draws post-flop, so what was an unfavorable pre-flop situation can turn into a favorable post-flop situation with out your opponent even knowing it. Instead of getting into an unfavorable confrontation against QQ pre-flop with AKs where you can't do anything about it, now you're in a favorable position against QQ post flop where your skill matters.

You re-raise your Aces to off set your kicker, you don't re-raise your Aces because they're suited.

3) AJ and AT don't have to fold to a 3Bet.

Even tho' I'm inclined to fold these hands to a 3Bet, if they're suited you can cold call here to see the flop. If the Ace hits, then bet out into it once, and that should be enough to get them to fold KK-JJ, AXs or tell you they have AA, AK or AQ. If the monster draw hits, then you can just go for it. If they're unsuited, you can 4Bet bluff the button or the blinds, but I wouldn't recommend it.

As an aside, the biggest problem I have with AJ and AT is that TPTK has almost no Cbet credibility. If some one re-raises you, they may just be re-raising you with a pair, ace high or draw. What do you do here?

Edit: AXu is a decent hand for the SB to raise against the BB or for the BB to raise against the SB or even re-raise against the SB if he's active. I don't think you can afford to raise this hand from the CO of tho', if the button decides to defend or re-raises you, you are going to spew. AXs is about the weakest Aces you can play from the CO and show a profit with over time.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

breathweapon,


thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed response. you are definitely thinking a lot about your approach to poker, and that makes discussion much more interesting. i have a high WPP also


"1). Cold calling with AK"


The term "inverse spew" is unfamiliar to me, but it sounds like it means failing to induce your opponents to make a mistake.


I find that people will often call my reraises with A-Q and, if i have been 3betting a lot, hands like A-J/K-Q. In a 3bet pot with 100BB stacks, they practically have to stack off on an Ace/King high flop. In only a raised pot, a good opponent is not going to go broke with one pair for 100BB's.

You seem to have had success doing this, and i can't say im bothered that an approach different from my own is effective. But, you probably also cold call raises preflop with several other types of hands - something i don't do so much. This is only a fundamental strategy difference, i think.


"2) Suited Aces are not another reason to re-raise, Suited Aces are another reason to call"


i will call preflop in position with a hand like A-4s. i'd say i probably 3bet/call close to 50/50 at a typical table at the limits i play. i notice now that i didn't write much about calling preflop raises with A-xs, and i will make that adjustment now.


"3). AJ and AT don't have to fold to a 3Bet"

i will only say that i think your approach to playing these hands cant be very effective.


could you show stats from a large database that suggests A-xs is the weakest Ace you can profitably play from the CO in a 6 handed game? I would think really any Ace could show a profit from the CO/BTN in a 6 handed game, but i will stand corrected if you can show me something you are basing that statement from.

[Fnord]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Fnord ($147.10)
SB ($211.90)
BB ($31.60)
UTG ($211.50)
MP ($380.05)
CO ($212.80)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with A, K.
3 folds, Fnord raises to $7, SB raises to $26, 1 fold, Fnord calls $19.

Flop: ($54) 8, 2, K (2 players)
SB bets $36, Fnord calls $36.

Turn: ($126) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $149.9 (All-In), Fnord calls $85.10 (All-In).

River: ($296.20) A (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $296.20

Results:
SB has Qs Qh (one pair, queens).
Fnord has Ad Kc (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Fnord wins $296.20. SB wins $64.80.

LoL TAggs

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

lol fnord for the record i don't think id go broke with Q-Q on that hand


i can't tell what you are trying to say with the HH though about my OP

[Fnord]

i can't tell what you are trying to say with the HH though about my OP

Just calling with AK instead of jamming it down people's throats works great against TAggs that will rep your hand for you all the way.

A lot of badish by-the-forum TAggs will get themselves into some pretty terrible spots if you hand them the rope.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

i can't tell what you are trying to say with the HH though about my OP

Just calling with AK instead of jamming it down people's throats works great against TAggs that will rep your hand for you all the way.

A lot of badish by-the-forum TAggs will get themselves into some pretty terrible spots if you hand them the rope.

thanks, im going to add something about that.

[breathweapon]

breathweapon,


thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed response. you are definitely thinking a lot about your approach to poker, and that makes discussion much more interesting. i have a high WPP also


"1). Cold calling with AK"


The term "inverse spew" is unfamiliar to me, but it sounds like it means failing to induce your opponents to make a mistake.


I find that people will often call my reraises with A-Q and, if i have been 3betting a lot, hands like A-J/K-Q. In a 3bet pot with 100BB stacks, they practically have to stack off on an Ace/King high flop. In only a raised pot, a good opponent is not going to go broke with one pair for 100BB's.

You seem to have had success doing this, and i can't say im bothered that an approach different from my own is effective. But, you probably also cold call raises preflop with several other types of hands - something i don't do so much. This is only a fundamental strategy difference, i think.


"2) Suited Aces are not another reason to re-raise, Suited Aces are another reason to call"


i will call preflop in position with a hand like A-4s. i'd say i probably 3bet/call close to 50/50 at a typical table at the limits i play. i notice now that i didn't write much about calling preflop raises with A-xs, and i will make that adjustment now.


"3). AJ and AT don't have to fold to a 3Bet"

i will only say that i think your approach to playing these hands cant be very effective.


could you show stats from a large database that suggests A-xs is the weakest Ace you can profitably play from the CO in a 6 handed game? I would think really any Ace could show a profit from the CO/BTN in a 6 handed game, but i will stand corrected if you can show me something you are basing that statement from.

Inverse Spew=Failing to induce your opponent to spew.

With AK, it's important to give the opponent as many opportunities to make a mistake as possible. By re-raising AK, you're telling your opponent to either fold their weaker Ace or push their pair, neither of which wins you a lot of money and one of which loses you money over the long term. If they do make a mistake and push their weaker Ace, then there's no way you can know that they've made a mistake. You may actually fold your hand here and miss your opportunity to profit.

This is a theory I'm working on,

If your opponent opened before the cut off, the odds of his hand improving over the course of 5 cards are less than the odds of an opponent who opened on or after the cut off. If your opponent called on or after the cut off, the odds of his hand improving over the course of 5 cards are greater than the odds of your hand improving over the course of 5 cards. If your opponent called before the cut off, the odds of his hand improving over the course of 5 cards are less than the odds of some one who would have called on or after the cut off.

Basically, when you cold call with AK from the last four positions on the table, your opponent reasons that he has to value bet his pairs against draws, missed sets and ace high or weaker aces based on your position. In order to do this, he has to bet both the flop and the turn. To take advantage of this, you flat call his bets or check raises to simulate a draw, or you check raise his bets to simulate a draw if you semi-bluff your draws in position (the important thing is to be consistent in this case). The result of this, the opponent hands you their stack, because they're trying to keep you off of making a hand when your hand is already made.

This strategy is most effective when you cold call with Suited Connectors, lower PPs and AXs for their implied value. Essentially, you're turning AK into another implied value hand, but it's an implied value hand that plays on their side of the board, and they have no way of knowing that, especially when you're re-raising with AQ, AJ, AT, AXs etc. I look at AA the same way, I cold call AA and AK in the last four positions for deception, and depending on whether or not the pot is multi-way, I'll bet them harder for each person in the pot behind me. If there is a caller in front of me, than I'll re-raise to isolate either one of them. If I'm UTG+1, I'll re-raise to prevent other players from entering the pot.

Calling the 3Bet with AJs, ATs can spew, but it also gives the illusion of AK against KK-JJ and the flush draw factors in. It depends on reads and where the raise is coming from, if I'm being re-raised by the button from the cut off or by the blinds from the button, I'm comfortable with the idea of calling with AJs, ATs and 4Bet bluffing. If I was dealing with a nOOb, I'd tell them to fold AQ, AJ, AT and KQ to a re-raise in order to prevent them from getting into trouble with these hands.

AXu from the CO is just an observation I made from experience, but I think you're over valuing AXu from the CO, because the button will initiate position battles by calling or re-raising if he thinks you're stealing position from him, and the blinds will call or re-raise if they think you're stealing the pot from them. It sucks to be out of position with AXu, so it's not something I'd recommend.

Look at this for a numbers approach to those hands,

http://www.flopturnriver.com/Holdem-...-6-Players.php

3Betting AXs for me is positional, I wont 3Bet AXs unless I'm in the blinds or on the button and the person who opened was on the CO, the button or the SB. You have to give UTG and UTG +1 respect for AK, AQ, AJ, AT etc. and there's no reason to isolate from the CO, Button or SB against UTG and UTG +1 when it can draw to a flush in a multi way hand. It also helps balance cold calling with AA and AK from the CO and button, once I stack some one from slow rolling AA and AK from those positions, AXs gets a lot more respect than it should. AXs is really the hardest Ace hand to play, because it varies so much based on position. I never know whether or not I want to open with it, call with it, re-raise with it or fold it whenever I see it. It's certainly a good hand in the last 4 positions, but playing it in the first 2 positions, or first 6 positions in 10Max, is difficult.