Live Earth & Sicko

[CRUSHER]

Interesting weekend so far. I spent Friday watching and discussing Michael Moore's "Sicko" and I spent Saturday watching the Live Earth concerts. Maybe a change for the better is starting to occur.

Sicko raises some interesting questions regarding health care for everyone in America. I can only imagine our international friends are wondering how much corporate greed we are going to put up with before we demand a change.

[Xianti]

What are Live Earth concerts?

[Warpe]

Saw Sicko on Thursday. Loved it. It's one-sided but so what...it's Michael Moore and it should provoke a lot of discussion. I've been watching the concerts all day.

[mrhappy333]

LIVE EARTH: 7 continents of concerts, highliting the Global warming problem.

Kinda like Live AID in the 90's?

[Ash256]

Interesting weekend so far. I spent Friday watching and discussing Michael Moore's "Sicko" and I spent Saturday watching the Live Earth concerts. Maybe a change for the better is starting to occur.

Sicko raises some interesting questions regarding health care for everyone in America. I can only imagine our international friends are wondering how much corporate greed we are going to put up with before we demand a change.

Yea, as a UKer, I still think it's fucking insane in the US.

[pgil]

there was an interesting spot in a Jay Leno interview where Moore recalled his days on the show TV Nation on NBC. He did a comparison between the healthcare systems of the US, Canada, and Cuba, based on cost, efficiency, etc. Cuba won.

NBC called him and told him that Cuba couldn't win. The episode that aired had Canada win.

[Miffed22001]

Interesting weekend so far. I spent Friday watching and discussing Michael Moore's "Sicko" and I spent Saturday watching the Live Earth concerts. Maybe a change for the better is starting to occur.

Sicko raises some interesting questions regarding health care for everyone in America. I can only imagine our international friends are wondering how much corporate greed we are going to put up with before we demand a change.

Yea, as a UKer, I still think it's fucking insane in the US.

2nd'ed

If you break you leg, it shouldnt make you bankrupt or go unfixed!

I was at the Live Earth London concert. It was fucking immense.

[Warpe]

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

[boost]

there was an interesting spot in a Jay Leno interview where Moore recalled his days on the show TV Nation on NBC. He did a comparison between the healthcare systems of the US, Canada, and Cuba, based on cost, efficiency, etc. Cuba won.

NBC called him and told him that Cuba couldn't win. The episode that aired had Canada win.

lol our media is insane.

I saw sicko whatever weekend it opened. I was disgusted afterwards. Not at moore, but at the state of our health care comparison to other first world countries, and then in comparison to Cuba!. I knew it sucked that my sister got carbon monoxide poisoning, woke up in the hospital, and had a bill for thousands of dollars for an IV and a 5 minute ambulance ride. But I didnt really how much it sucked, I had no perspective. People of a prosperous nation such as ours going bankrupt due to what amounts to an act of god is really pitiful.

[bigred]

I was at the Live Earth London concert. It was fucking immense.

I'm jealous. I met a few girls who were going to the new york one at the meadowlands. Man I wish I could have gone to that.

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

[SaulPaul]

yeah out system is inefficient et al, every one has a right to live right? in ur system every1 has a right to live, but if ur lower middle class u have to forfeit ur livelihood to gain that right. surely being the richest country on earth that basic human right shouldnt be out of reach. its a shame that its the corpartions that fund your politcial partys. u cant really ask bush / clintion etc. not to give them back 'favours' which benifit business not the people that voted for them

[SaulPaul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbAWNnGSVCw&NR=1

wish there politicians nowadays that had the integrity of tony benn

[CRUSHER]

I knew it sucked that my sister got carbon monoxide poisoning, woke up in the hospital, and had a bill for thousands of dollars for an IV and a 5 minute ambulance ride. But I didnt really how much it sucked, I had no perspective. People of a prosperous nation such as ours going bankrupt due to what amounts to an act of god is really pitiful.

I hope your sister is better. The cost of care is getting out of hand and, on that note, it's time for me to vent a little.

It is amazing to know so many other countries have free health care and America does not. Just questioning the reason why is enough to make one realize the answer involves money instead of providing a wonderful service. As Sicko points out, the quality of service and care in other countries is typically excellent and comes without much cost, if any. Don't believe me, then ask our FTR friends from other countries.

So, why doesn't America provide free health care? Some would argue about quality, service or the amount of time it would take to receive care. I suppose if you really like the status quo, then you aren't one to seriously examine the issues. If, however, you believe, at the very least, there is room for improvement, we should ask ourselves why we cannot provide for our own citizens.

I know some people out there have terrific health plans and pay good money for their service. But what about those who don't have it so good? There are millions of people out there living week to week on their paychecks. They work hard, put food on their table and try to save when they can. Some have health insurance and some do not. Most don't expect a serious illness or catastrophe to occur and, if it happens unexpectedly, the costs can have serious, traumatic, financial results. In sharp contrast, the health insurance providers, pharmaceutical companies, etc are making MILLIONS of dollars in profits for a variety of reasons, including denial of claims.

Like the oil industry who raises the price of gas 30 cents or more and try justify the increase by blaming weather, breakdowns, etc. And yet, somehow, with all of the hurricanes, oil rig accidents or whatever excuse they provide, their profits increase by 1 Million dollars. Oops, that's supposed to be 10 million dollars. Drats, my mistake. I meant to say 100 million...no, no...I still got that wrong...their profit was 10 BILLION Dollars....in a three month period!

America's obsession with greed at any cost has got to change. People need to become outraged regardless of their own comfort level. We need to recognize there are people suffering due to corporate or governmental greed. This has got to stop.

Thanks for letting me vent just a little.
-Crusher

[Xianti]

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

Are you legal yet???

[boost]

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

Are you legal yet???

hes british... pretty sure age of consent is like 15 or something...

[givememyleg]

i should move to Britain then!

[Ash256]

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

Are you legal yet???

hes british... pretty sure age of consent is like 15 or something...

Wrong. It's 16, 15 if you promise the girl crumpets and tea afterwards.

[mrhappy333]

CRUSHER nice article, do you have a plan to change the country?
I'd like to change alot of things in this country, but it seems almost undoable.??

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

Are you legal yet???

hes british... pretty sure age of consent is like 15 or something...

Wrong. It's 16, 15 if you promise the girl crumpets and tea afterwards.

This is exactly true.

[boost]

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

Are you legal yet???

hes british... pretty sure age of consent is like 15 or something...

Wrong. It's 16, 15 if you promise the girl crumpets and tea afterwards.

This is exactly true.

girl?

[CRUSHER]

CRUSHER nice article, do you have a plan to change the country? I'd like to change alot of things in this country, but it seems almost undoable.??

Thanks, dude.
Yeah, I have a few plans to change this country. Okay, maybe not but I do have some cool ideas. I may even present one of them to the city I live in as an effort to revitalize the city in a unique way. Changing the country seems like a daunting task indeed and I really don't know how the people in history managed to tackle it. Maybe the steps necessary to impact change is a course that should be taught in college.

[kevster]

Happy anniversary, dwarfman.

Wow, I didn't even realise. 3 years an FTRer, Jesus Christ!

Are you legal yet???

hes british... pretty sure age of consent is like 15 or something...

Wrong. It's 16, 15 if you promise the girl crumpets and tea afterwards.

This is exactly true.

girl?

I'm guessing he was talking about drinking and/or gambling. Anyways....

At 16 you can smoke and get it on with a partner of your choosing (providing they're 16 and they consent!!)
At 17 you can drive a car (following lessons/test etc.)
At 18 you can get drunk off your ass, vote (though they're talking about lowering this to 16) and go to the casino (some stipulate 21 but that's down to them not the law).

[bode]

I know some people out there have terrific health plans and pay good money for their service. But what about those who don't have it so good? There are millions of people out there living week to week on their paychecks. They work hard, put food on their table and try to save when they can. Some have health insurance and some do not. Most don't expect a serious illness or catastrophe to occur and, if it happens unexpectedly, the costs can have serious, traumatic, financial results. In sharp contrast, the health insurance providers, pharmaceutical companies, etc are making MILLIONS of dollars in profits for a variety of reasons, including denial of claims.

This is what "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" is all about! If you are not happy with your current situation (i.e. your job, insurance, etc.), you have every opportunity you want to improve. Maybe the guy who is stuck delivering pizzas his whole life and living paycheck to paycheck should have studied harder in high school, go to college/med school and become a doctor himself? I wont dispute the insurance claims denial, that is pretty bogus and way too common of a problem. As for free health care in the biggest capitalist economy in the world, i dont think it has much of a chance. DUCY?

[Warpe]

Access to proper healthcare services is not something that should be dependent on one's financial situation. If ANY country in the world should be able to afford to provide healthcare for all, it's the US.

[CRUSHER]

This is what "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" is all about! If you are not happy with your current situation (i.e. your job, insurance, etc.), you have every opportunity you want to improve. Maybe the guy who is stuck delivering pizzas his whole life and living paycheck to paycheck should have studied harder in high school, go to college/med school and become a doctor himself?

That's a good point and one that is certainly argued frequently. The truth of the matter, however, is that we need people to work in all aspects of the work force. We need doctors, lawyers, police, pizza delivery people, garbage collectors, etc, etc. Without people to fill the job market needs, our country, like any other, would crumble. Unfortunately, various jobs have various pay structures and not all of them offer enough money to live the "American Dream." And certainly not all of the employers offer health care or other benefits.

I am all about people working hard, studying to improve, etc. but the fact remains that there are just people out there who simply won't become a doctor. And thank goodness for that. Our society is built upon the pursuit of happiness, liberty and freedom. It is also a class structured society. I do not think it is likely we will ever see anything but a rich, middle class and poor society. So, instead of struggling to change our society structure, I think we are more capable of providing for those without. Not as a handout, mind you, but, having the capability, strength and knowhow, finding a resolution and implementing the change.

And, as Warpe said so very well and to the point, "Access to proper healthcare services is not something that should be dependent on one's financial situation." Especially for a country as rich and powerful as ours. We can do better. We should do better.

Open discussion is terrific.

[euphoricism]

I don't want to pay for your goddamned health care costs. I want to pay for me and only me.

Get the fuck out of my wallet!

[gabe]

Access to proper healthcare services is not something that should be dependent on one's financial situation.

why not?

[Warpe]

Because a civilized society doesn't deny medical care to people based on their inability to pay their bills.

[drmcboy]

this is a tough one. I feel gabe and euph because I never get sick and I'm guessing I will lose money in the long run if we go to a universal system. Worth mentioning that most people with a real job who don't get sick are already subsidizing everyone else at the company who uses the insurance. And medicare/medicaid are out there already as well.

But, it sucks to think that people will die just because they can't afford to live. And the system as is just doesn't seem to work very well.

I also have big concerns about what happens after universal health care - suddennly the gov't will have an interest in you being as healthy as possible which can lead to a lot of nanny state ideas.

[gabe]

this is a tough one. I feel gabe and euph because I never get sick and I'm guessing I will lose money in the long run if we go to a universal system. Worth mentioning that most people with a real job who don't get sick are already subsidizing everyone else at the company who uses the insurance. And medicare/medicaid are out there already as well.

i was just hoping someone would write out a bunch of reasons why, i havent really decided either way yet

[euphoricism]

I think we could do a lot better if we refuckingdid that moneypit of a fucked up welfare system altogether, and in doing so added better healthcare. Get the freeloaders who are 5th generation welfare mama's out and use that free'd up money to actually do something useful.

[drmcboy]

I half remember reading somewhere that rich Canadians often come to the US when they need top line, can anyone confirm/deny?

[Warpe]

It's more of a moral question than a practical one, gabe.

[gabe]

Because a civilized society doesn't deny medical care to people based on their inability to pay their bills.

sure they do, civilizations for the most part have denied medical care to people, right?

social darwinism yea?

[Trashcona]

I half remember reading somewhere that rich Canadians often come to the US when they need top line, can anyone confirm/deny?

The problem in Canada is the waiting lists for special procedures are so damn long. I know of people here who have flown to India to have surgery done because the waiting list was over a year and a half long.

[Warpe]

societies evolve

[bigred]

Who needs enemas with friends like these?

[euphoricism]

your metaphor intrigues me.

[mrhappy333]

you guys are sicko's but funny. lol

[bigred]

it's from who's line is it anyway, "things you don't want to hear from a doctor"

[boost]

I think we could do a lot better if we refuckingdid that moneypit of a fucked up welfare system altogether, and in doing so added better healthcare. Get the freeloaders who are 5th generation welfare mama's out and use that free'd up money to actually do something useful.

I dont like the way you used "mama's" maybe Im being overly sensitive though. Dont really need to argue it cuz you can easily just say I am indeed being overly sensistive, so whatever.

I do agree that the welfare system needs a huge reform too.

as for "Im never sick sooo..." well.. I mean.. really? You play poker and clearly have no grasp of what variance is?

[boost]

I think we could do a lot better if we refuckingdid that moneypit of a fucked up welfare system altogether, and in doing so added better healthcare. Get the freeloaders who are 5th generation welfare mama's out and use that free'd up money to actually do something useful.

I dont like the way you used "mama's" maybe Im being overly sensitive though. Dont really need to argue it cuz you can easily just say I am indeed being overly sensistive, so whatever.

I do agree that the welfare system needs a huge reform too.

as for "Im never sick sooo..." well.. I mean.. really? You play poker and clearly have no grasp of what variance is?

[CRUSHER]

I dont like the way you used "mama's" maybe Im being overly sensitive though. Dont really need to argue it cuz you can easily just say I am indeed being overly sensistive, so whatever.
As for "Im never sick sooo..." well.. I mean.. really? You play poker and clearly have no grasp of what variance is?

Yeah, I kinda caught that line and felt the same but it's probably best left untouched like you suggest.

I love your poker analogy! It's something we can all relate to.
The problem with "Me" societies is the lack of compasion that exists until, of course, the roles reverse. Hell, I never had a fire at my home so why are my tax dollars used to subsidize fire departments? Well, there are plenty of good reasons beyond the obvious, but you get the point. And, if you saw a fire begin at your neighbor's place, wouldn't you want to help put it out if you could?

These are tough questions and it is impressive people are giving it thought. I doubt there is any perfect answer to solve the issue but certainly something has got to be better than the current situation, right? I'm not terribly fond of government involvment either, especially with so many self-serving, lobbyist interests out there. But governments have power and it can be beneficial to have that kind of leverage working in favor of change. Will there be flaws? Probably. But improvement implies a change for the better and that's always something to wish for.

Anyone have any ideas for change? Even small, outside-the-box ideas can become a creative springboard.

[boost]

not starting any new wars would be a leap in the right direction.

As far as direct changes regarding health care, well I think thats easy. Form a panel of competent people and have them research and evaluate globalized health care systems currently being used in other countries. Take the good parts, alter them to fit the intricacies of our society, and implement the shit.

Obviously easier said then done, but come on, its not like we are trying to build a spaceship to take a man to the moon and back.... oh wait, we already did that... 40 years ago...

[euphoricism]

"welfare mama" was used for a reason, it describes a certain type of person - the type of person who gets on welfare, has a couple kids to increase her welfare check, and has no plans of ever getting off it. They exist. Theyre incredibly numerous around here .

[boost]

"welfare mama" was used for a reason, it describes a certain type of person - the type of person who gets on welfare, has a couple kids to increase her welfare check, and has no plans of ever getting off it. They exist. Theyre incredibly numerous around here .

Im not going to say youre wrong, because I havent seen what youve seen, however I do believe you are wrong. I do not at all think its common place for people to have several kids so that they can be on welfare and stay on it. The system is broaken, and the broaken part is not lazy people. The system is setup in a way in which its increadibly hard to get stuck in it. For example, if you are on welfare and dont have a job, then you have to go these classes that pretty much are house wife classes. So if someone makes a mistake when young and has a kid and doesnt get a hcance to get an education, they can either get a crappy low paying job and barel yscrape by or they can go to these classes and get a little bit bigger of a welfare check. School does not count. Now tell me, how much sense does that make? Here you are using the govt as a temp crutch trying to move up in the job market so you can support yourself, and they are pushing your ladder away from the building. Its a cold, heartless, broaken and depressing system to be involved with.

For the most part the system sucks, not the people using it.