OMG

[IowaSkinsFan]

Too good for tales... don't question play, ive been playing uber tight and guy is just being a threebet spewtard.

PokerStars Game #11256275417: Hold'em No Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/08/01 - 16:42:13 (ET)
Table 'Dares IV' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: rylflsh61 ($350.50 in chips)
Seat 3: pmldriessen ($64 in chips)
Seat 4: heybude ($443 in chips)
Seat 5: No10No10Ho! ($1248.75 in chips)
Seat 6: curtains ($76 in chips)
curtains: posts small blind $2
rylflsh61: posts big blind $4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Td Qd]
pmldriessen: folds
heybude: raises $12 to $16
No10No10Ho!: raises $44 to $60
curtains: folds
rylflsh61: folds
heybude: raises $128 to $188
No10No10Ho!: raises $820 to $1008
heybude: calls $255 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [5d 8s 8d]
*** TURN *** [5d 8s 8d] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [5d 8s 8d Kc] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
heybude: shows [Td Qd] (a pair of Eights)
No10No10Ho!: mucks hand
heybude collected $890 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $892 | Rake $2
Board [5d 8s 8d Kc 4h]
Seat 1: rylflsh61 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: pmldriessen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: heybude showed [Td Qd] and won ($890) with a pair of Eights
Seat 5: No10No10Ho! (button) mucked [Jc 7c]
Seat 6: curtains (small blind) folded before Flop

[EzDuzIt]

lol
standard value shove obv

[Trikflow77]

well you just smoked lukies A4 hand. NH sir

[gabe]

i dont like your 4 bet size

[IowaSkinsFan]

i dont like your 4 bet size

I thought OOP this is standard, in pos normally its almost min.

[I Like Pie]

That is fantastic.

[zook]

i dont like your 4 bet size

Can you expand? Obv this size forces him to call a 5-bet shove. But would you 4-bet less and fold to a 5-bet shove?

[Warpe]

Too good for tales...

you're dead to me

[gabe]

i dont like your 4 bet size

Can you expand? Obv this size forces him to call a 5-bet shove. But would you 4-bet less and fold to a 5-bet shove?

yea id probably do like 140, saying he was trying to induce a 5 bet shove from worse hands than Q high is ridiculous

[IowaSkinsFan]

i dont like your 4 bet size

Can you expand? Obv this size forces him to call a 5-bet shove. But would you 4-bet less and fold to a 5-bet shove?

yea id probably do like 140, saying he was trying to induce a 5 bet shove from worse hands than Q high is ridiculous

lol i wasn't. Although i dont think u were implying that.

[zook]

I wasn't either. Just trying to guess why you thought the 4-bet size was bad.

gabe: Do you do much 4-betting and folding?

[gabe]

do it a couple times a session

[crazycrazy]

hm getting all in with QT... ow much someone hve to 3bet u until u do something like this ? arent there better spots to tell him to screw off ?

[EzDuzIt]

hm getting all in with QT... ow much someone hve to 3bet u until u do something like this ? arent there better spots to tell him to screw off ?

it wasnt really his preference to get all in....

[crazycrazy]

aha...
in that case aint it better to push and not 3bet him back ? i mean if ur decided u'll call his shove....

[IowaSkinsFan]

aha...
in that case aint it better to push and not 3bet him back ? i mean if ur decided u'll call his shove....

raising half my stack commits me to a push so its essentially a shove.

[griffey24]

aha...
in that case aint it better to push and not 3bet him back ? i mean if ur decided u'll call his shove....

raising half my stack commits me to a push so its essentially a shove.

So really what you're saying here is that in your mind this is a shove. BUT you 4-bet here smaller here, because any 4-bet shove will obviously get called by something better than Q-high. But 4-betting smaller might induce villain to 5-bet push some nonsense Jxs hand?

[crazycrazy]

aha...
in that case aint it better to push and not 3bet him back ? i mean if ur decided u'll call his shove....

raising half my stack commits me to a push so its essentially a shove.

So really what you're saying here is that in your mind this is a shove. BUT you 4-bet here smaller here, because any 4-bet shove will obviously get called by something better than Q-high. But 4-betting smaller might induce villain to 5-bet push some nonsense Jxs hand?

thats what i meant, i mean, if u invest third of ur stack some ppl will still preserve the rest if the ythink they are against aces... so maybe he tried to represent that...so if u put it all-in he cant even think about bluffing...and his range to call ur push should be much smaller than that which he tried to push you off with....

[EzDuzIt]

it pretty rare to get 5 bet shoved by something worse than Q10 so its not really to induce a push from something worse.

[zook]

Which has more fold equity, ISF's 4-bet or a 4-bet shove?

[griffey24]

Which has more fold equity, ISF's 4-bet or a 4-bet shove?

A shove for sure has more fold equity. But from this example we can see that it would fold out some better hands than Q10 but also some worse hands (ie: the hand that villain pushed with here... I'm assuming he wouldn't have CALLED with Jxs)

[EzDuzIt]

Which has more fold equity, ISF's 4-bet or a 4-bet shove?

A shove for sure has more fold equity. But from this example we can see that it would fold out some better hands than Q10 but also some worse hands (ie: the hand that villain pushed with here... I'm assuming he wouldn't have CALLED with Jxs)

the whole getting in with q10 being the best hand is so rare, its really not much of a reason to 4bet instead of shove.

i think that in some cases vs certain villans a normal 4bet looks stronger than just shoving which could make it have the the same or better FE.

[IowaSkinsFan]

aha...
in that case aint it better to push and not 3bet him back ? i mean if ur decided u'll call his shove....

raising half my stack commits me to a push so its essentially a shove.

So really what you're saying here is that in your mind this is a shove. BUT you 4-bet here smaller here, because any 4-bet shove will obviously get called by something better than Q-high. But 4-betting smaller might induce villain to 5-bet push some nonsense Jxs hand?

This post makes me realize why gabe hated my raise size I gain no advantage by raising half my stack, in fact I should raise to an amount that will get my opponent to make more of a mistake.

[Halv]

Which has more fold equity, ISF's 4-bet or a 4-bet shove?

A shove for sure has more fold equity.

I'm not that sure. I feel like I usually see AK these days when facing a 4bet shove, while AA tends to smooth call or make a smaller 4-bet. This might be result orientedness on my part though.

Anyway, the difference in FE between different 4bet sizes + the fact that we'll get 5-bet bluff-shoved on sooooo rarely means that we can 4bet smaller and fold instead of committing ourselves. Right?

[griffey24]

aha...
in that case aint it better to push and not 3bet him back ? i mean if ur decided u'll call his shove....

raising half my stack commits me to a push so its essentially a shove.

So really what you're saying here is that in your mind this is a shove. BUT you 4-bet here smaller here, because any 4-bet shove will obviously get called by something better than Q-high. But 4-betting smaller might induce villain to 5-bet push some nonsense Jxs hand?

This post makes me realize why gabe hated my raise size I gain no advantage by raising half my stack, in fact I should raise to an amount that will get my opponent to make more of a mistake.

True but if you raised less, you might actually find a fold with Q high in this spot?.. or perhaps not?

Is this a numbers thing.. or simply a "I feel he's bluffing" thing?

cause as played, you need to win 28% of the time to make your call. If you raised to lets say $130 instead, and he pushed, you'd need to win 35% to make the call. Or is that irrelevant, since it all comes down to you not believing him, anyhow?