600NL, I need bet sizing help

[IowaSkinsFan]

Opp is 21/19 straight forward type reg. I threebet him the last hand and haven't been too active so i suspect that he doesn't think i'm threebetting light. But who knows, he could think im tilting or something.
When he calls the flop tbh I pretty much am going to three barrel any hand as long as a club doesnt come but I have a flush so its not about FE. When he calls the flop I'm a little stunned because I'm pretty sure at this point he has either AcT-AcK, QcQ, and sometimes an A high flush or other flushes.

I think my turn bet size was bad, river bet was about pot. I was talking to Fnord and he thinks a big leak in my game is pot control with my bet sizing and I'd like to improve that.

POKERSTARS GAME #12705040496: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2007/10/18 - 17:27:55 (ET)
Table 'Eugenia' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Radioheads ($591 in chips)
Seat 2: Waugl12 ($577.05 in chips)
Seat 3: Sulzi ($1242.45 in chips)
Seat 4: kustomkar ($2857.60 in chips)
Seat 5: adsanman12 ($609.55 in chips)
Seat 6: heybude ($1240 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $3
Radioheads: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [6c 3c]
Waugl12: folds
Sulzi: raises $12 to $18
kustomkar: folds
adsanman12: folds
heybude: raises $60 to $78
Radioheads: folds
Sulzi: calls $60
*** FLOP *** [7c Kc Jc]
heybude: bets $120
Sulzi: calls $120
*** TURN *** [7c Kc Jc] [8s]
heybude: bets $216 (I think this should've been something like 300)
Sulzi: calls $216
*** RIVER *** [7c Kc Jc 8s] [5s]
heybude: bets $826 and is all-in

[zook]

Yeah, bet more on the turn to make your river push 3/4 pot-ish. Even $250 works.

I like the slightly bigger 3bet pre with 200bb stacks, but I think I remember you saying you don't do that... you just widen your range to take away implieds. Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Renton]

i really hate the 3bet pre

[silu73]

i really hate the 3bet pre

Preflop is questionable but the size of your 3-bet is good. However, this 3-bet works well against regulars and 200bb deep.

Turn bet is way to small imo. I would bet a minimum $275 as I want him to call a river push which is no more than 3/4 pot. You should make him believe that the river push was out of desperation and your only way to win this pot. Pump your fist when he calls.

[Renton]

i really hate the 3bet pre

Preflop is questionable but the size of your 3-bet is good. However, this 3-bet works well against regulars and 200bb deep.

i don't think so.

I think any decent player is going to own you with position and these stacks.

[gabe]

i dont like the size of the 3 bet

you know the answer to your question, you should have bet more on turn, like at least 250

[silu73]

i really hate the 3bet pre

Preflop is questionable but the size of your 3-bet is good. However, this 3-bet works well against regulars and 200bb deep.

i don't think so.

I think any decent player is going to own you with position and these stacks.

Fair enough. I was basically remembering a Cardrunners tutor who said that you shouldn't only use your good hands for 3-betting a regular out of the blinds but to mix it sometimes with trash hands as well. I personally wouldn't do it with 63s though.

Isn't 3-betting 3.5-4x the raise OOP with deep stacks standard?

[Renton]

i'd be totally fine with the 3bet if we had position

[gabe]

the 3bet itself is fine as long as its far from standard

[sauce123]

the 3bet itself is fine as long as its far from standard

yea, just size ur bets so u have 3/4 pot on riverish

and def dont checkraise anywhere

[Renton]

the 3bet itself is fine as long as its far from standard

so you think we are making money in a vacuum by 3betting this preflop, when considering that he's going to call us with a wide range and position?

[gabe]

i dont judge any of my hands from a "vacuum" perpsective

[sauce123]

when Taurus is in the house of Neptune Gabe 3bets 46s to UTG raisers and bets TP for three streets of value.

[gabe]

couldnt have said it better

[IowaSkinsFan]

I'd like to recant the statement that this guy is going to call a lot of hands pre, he hasn't been calling threebets light at all.

So what's the threebet? 66? 72?

[gabe]

anyone like river check

or underbet might be sick

[IowaSkinsFan]

Does everyone agree with the AK, AJ, QQ assesment of likely range?
Because if so I don't like a river check.

[sauce123]

i think anything other than bet/bet/shove here would be a disaster

[gabe]

betting $150 on riv just seems fun, push seems like a better bluff

[Toadstool]

From another perspective this is ok because from his point of view, your smallish bet on the turn probably means your range is more weighted towards a draw (assuming he hasnt got the Ac) and your river push is a missed draw.

[IowaSkinsFan]

From another perspective this is ok because from his point of view, your smallish bet on the turn probably means your range is more weighted towards a draw (assuming he hasnt got the Ac) and your river push is a missed draw.

I think people have gotten past this level, which is why i didnt like this line, but that was my reasoning at the time. Kind of like "Well i'll make a small bet on the turn and if he doesn't shove he can't have anything good so ill shove bluff him!"

[pantherhound]

did he call

[sauce123]

panther- zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[IowaSkinsFan]

no he folded.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

i think anything other than bet/bet/shove here would be a disaster

yeah

i dont like the size of the 3 bet

Usually when the stacks are deep I will 3-bet bigger until i have an image of light 3-betting, then i'll go to smaller sizing. Is this wrong?

that being said, 36s shouldn't be 3-bet at all if you have to do that size.