200€NL JJ

[Dislexsik]

Sorry for not using converter, but the one i use is currently down.

Anyway, villain is loose passive, with AF of 1,2.
Whats the best line here?

** Game ID 1723166345 starting - 2007-11-17 17:25:24
** New York 02 [Hold 'em] (1.00|2.00 No Limit - € Cash Game) Real Money

- sitation sitting in seat 1 with €205.45
- santarian10 sitting in seat 2 with €38.00
- Dislexsik sitting in seat 3 with €213.15
- -Kutuzov- sitting in seat 4 with €131.45
- fredilorbubu sitting in seat 5 with €155.91
- samcollins sitting in seat 6 with €190.65 [Dealer]

sitation posted the small blind - €1.00
santarian10 posted the big blind - €2.00
** Dealing card to Dislexsik: ,
Dislexsik raised - €8.00
-Kutuzov- folded
fredilorbubu folded
samcollins folded
sitation called - €8.00
santarian10 called - €8.00

** Dealing the flop: , ,
sitation bet - €12.00
santarian10 folded

?

[Dislexsik]

is this forum dead?

[meeloche]

I'm raising here with this monster draw and probably calling a shove if thats all the info you have on the villain. Your hand is too strong just to fold to the donk lead or call then have a blank turn hit and be lost.
Although i think calling a shove after 3 betting could be marginal , I'm interested in what others think.

[daven]

two options
1) Call
2) Raise to 55 and call any shove

[Galapogos]

I just call against described villain.

[UG]

I just call against described villain.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

we should be raising for value with a pair + thousand outs

[Galapogos]

we should be raising for value with a pair + thousand outs

Dirty dirty outs.

[UG]

we should be raising for value with a pair + thousand outs

Dirty dirty outs.

Yeah, I don't fold here but a lot of our outs are dirty dirty, that's why I just call.

[Galapogos]

Plus we have a passive player leading OOP into 2 players, one of which is the PFR. I like to decide what he's up to on the turn here.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

i think both raising or calling are both pretty much the same equity.

[bigspenda73]

i think both raising or calling are both pretty much the same equity.

Mass I'm not jumping on you here, but can you explain what you mean by this?

[UG]

i think both raising or calling are both pretty much the same equity.

Mass I'm not jumping on you here, but can you explain what you mean by this?

I'm jumping on him, EXPLAIN YOSELF!


Please.

[Dislexsik]

If i raise, what am i trying to accomplish?Im not sure, but like others said, those outs could not be good.PLayer is passive, i dont think i can make him fold his range of hands.

Anyway, i just called:


** Game ID 1723166345 starting - 2007-11-17 17:25:24
** New York 02 [Hold 'em] (1.00|2.00 No Limit - € Cash Game) Real Money

- sitation sitting in seat 1 with €205.45
- santarian10 sitting in seat 2 with €38.00
- Hero sitting in seat 3 with €213.15
- -Kutuzov- sitting in seat 4 with €131.45
- fredilorbubu sitting in seat 5 with €155.91
- samcollins sitting in seat 6 with €190.65 [Dealer]

sitation posted the small blind - €1.00
santarian10 posted the big blind - €2.00
** Dealing card to Hero: Jack of Spades, Jack of Diamonds
Hero raised - €8.00
-Kutuzov- folded
fredilorbubu folded
samcollins folded
sitation called - €8.00
santarian10 called - €8.00

** Dealing the flop: Queen of Diamonds, 9 of Diamonds, 10 of Diamonds
sitation bet - €12.00
santarian10 folded
Hero called - €12.00

** Dealing the turn: 4 of Hearts
sitation bet - €48.00

[griffey24]

I like the flop flat call, I agree with all the dirty outs comments.

Honestly, I think I might fold this turn as crappy as it is.

If he has KdQo I won't be happy about hitting my set or my diamond
If he has AdQ I won't be happy about my diamond
and if IF we hit our outs to a straight, we could already be dead as it is...

He's passive and he's firing two barrels INTO the PF raiser... he's not messing around here.

[Miffed22001]

i lieka flop raise as we could (shock horror) fold to a push on flop but opp is more likely to check to us on turn making our hand much easier to play. Then we can bet or check.
If we call flop we get no choice and 75% of the time get a second bet fired into us.

[Galapogos]

I fold the turn now. This is how they always seem to play their monsters. Didn't get enough action on the flop so now he's trying to make up for it by potting the next two streets.

Bigspenda: he just means it's not really a big mistake either way.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

Because our outs are dirty, to me it makes more sense to get all in on the flop so we don't have to worry whether to call/fold if one of our draws does complete.

We have anywhere from 35-45% equity versus most felting ranges for villain, and we'd pretty much have to play the hand passively on later streets no matter what cards came on the turn/river if we just called the flop lead.

[jackvance]

Yeah give up on the turn, although it really really sucks because he could very well be on one of the million possible draws..

[meeloche]

Because our outs are dirty, to me it makes more sense to get all in on the flop so we don't have to worry whether to call/fold if one of our draws does complete.

I agree with this. I think playing it this way makes our hand much easier to play and takes away any second guessing on later streets.

[Dislexsik]

Because our outs are dirty, to me it makes more sense to get all in on the flop so we don't have to worry whether to call/fold if one of our draws does complete.

We have anywhere from 35-45% equity versus most felting ranges for villain, and we'd pretty much have to play the hand passively on later streets no matter what cards came on the turn/river if we just called the flop lead.

Yeah true, but i dont think we have any FE.

doing pretty nice against his range tho

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

83,160 games 0.016 secs 5,197,500 games/sec

Board: Qd Td 9d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.556% 45.50% 01.06% 37834 882.00 { JdJh }
Hand 1: 53.444% 52.38% 01.06% 43562 882.00 { 99+, AKs, AcQc, AhQh, AsQs, Ad8d, Ad7d, Ad6d, Ad5d, Ah5h, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d, KcQc, KhQh, KsQs, KcJc, KhJh, KsJs, QcTc, QhTh, QsTs, Qc9c, Qh9h, Qs9s, AQo, KJo+, QTo-Q9o }