$100nl Bad place for cbet?

[spoonitnow]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($24.90)
Hero ($98.50)
CO ($78.85)
Button ($63.50)
SB ($97.50)
BB ($78.20)
UTG ($148)
UTG+1 ($159.20)
MP1 ($99.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6, 6.
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4, 1 fold, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) A, J, 8 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero ...

BB is 17/3/7.6 and no stats on other villain. I've not been particularly out of line and have only been at the table for an orbit or two.

Is this a bad place for a cbet?

[HiLo]

I'm c-betting here.

[wufwugy]

I'm not. Villians call with a ton of stuff, and we have to fold to any bet on turn/river. This may be a good spot for a double barrel, but I don't think so. We'd need to triple due to the fd, I think, but I don't like that since they will likely call down with an ace.

[daven]

bet $9

[HiLo]

[quote="wufwugy"]I'm not.quote]

Really? This pot is ours until proven otherwise! Major part of our range is Ace-big. Bet it and take the pot down. I'm not giving this pot up til I meet resistance - only then am i re-evaluating.

[Renton]

im not

they aren't bought in full, so they probably have teh A2o.

in all srsness, they are probably both donks, which means 1) that dramatically increases the likelihood that they have an ace, and 2) that dramatically increases the likelihood that they'll peel any piece of the flop.

generally speaking though, this isn't the worst spot to cbet though.

[WildBobAA]

I'm check/folding

[checkraiseit]

6 max - def C bet it.... OR if your image was tight, AND you've won the last few showdowns, then C bet the crap outta it.

Otherwise... not last to act, basically a bluff, no good draws...all comes down to how tight/loose/passive/aggressive the button is.

Tricky button, check fold. Wimpy button, C bet.

No info on button whatsoever? Probably 50% 50% either way. I vote C bet cuz I like to keep an aggressive image, and you have SOME fold equity.

[wufwugy]

[quote="HiLo"]

I'm not.quote]

Really? This pot is ours until proven otherwise! Major part of our range is Ace-big. Bet it and take the pot down. I'm not giving this pot up til I meet resistance - only then am i re-evaluating.

The purpose of cbetting with a poor hand is to get folds from better hands. The majority of this comes from getting nits to fold less than top pair and marginal draws. These villians are not those kind of nits.

[spoonitnow]

Assume the same situation (including the BB checking the flop), but the flop comes...

1. A 9 4

2. Q J 7

3. Q 8 4

...how does the spot change for each of these, if any?

[XTR1000]

1. c/f for the reasons wuf and Renton mentioned, mostly b/c I spew 3b when no diamond hits

2. c/f, because Qx/Jx are a huge part of their ranges

3. bet/db with reads that they like to call flops with A-high or something.

[wufwugy]

You can get away with betting the third one. A problem with cbetting as much as we've learned to is that we're getting bluffed much more often than we used to. In the first two examples, we'll get bluffed by worse hands that continue beyond the flop from time to time, but the last example we won't most of the time.

The second hand is the worst to cbet, imo. More draws that can bluff us and more pairs that look good and beat us.

[Renton]

i would prob bet 2 and 3

[Chopper]

so, our criteria to NOT cbet is a suited A on flop? otherwise, we fire?

i think its a no-brainer that #3 is a clear cbet. why not #2? sure, it hit their range, but it hit ours pretty hard, too. overpairs, sets, and AQ/AJ, from lp, QJs, KJs, are all in OUR range, too. ISF theorem states when a board hits our range harder than theirs, we bluff more. villains called pf. we are in the driver's seat, why are we so quick to let it go? i fire 2 barrels into this flop, especially if a str8 completes, or the board pairs, as scare cards. you guys may say, "thats exactly why you dont cbet it." i say, "thats exactly why you DO."

#1...meh. i may bet to protect my hand, but i dont know that its worth protecting. i may donk this one on occasion to see how much someone likes their hand, but i dont see a lot of raising donk leads, and i should.