I cannot believe I'm posting this hand 400NL

[Deanglow]

Any of you who have played with me/seen my advice know that I hate folding. Villain is 7/2.5 over 500 hands. I got my stack playing solid/tight. So do you make the fold?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($394)
UTG+1 ($62.15)
MP1 ($252.30)
MP2 ($399.40)
CO ($444.70)
Button ($793)
Hero ($620)
BB ($162.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 3.
4 folds, CO raises to $16, 1 fold, Hero calls $14, 1 fold.

Flop: ($36) 3, Q, 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $28, CO calls $28.

Turn: ($92) K (2 players)
Hero bets $68, CO raises to $228, Hero

[Jack Sawyer]

You are playing against the Rock of Gibraltar

I really don't like bottom set in that situation

[XTR1000]

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

[Deanglow]

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

What is his range?

[Muzzard]

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

What is his range?

We are screwed vs his range, unless he play AK or AA like this. Which I think Villain wouldn't. What's the aggression factor?

If aggression is reasonably low, range is QQ/KK/AA/AK, in that order of likelihood IMO

[d0zer]

If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?

[XTR1000]

Without a read he´s slowplaying QQ/KK on this sort of flop I get in.

What is his range?

AhKh/AA/QQ

[BankItDrew]

i've raise preflop with suited hearts and JT before,... add that to anyones range

[Deanglow]

If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?

I think my implied odds are there. I don't think he is a very good nit and will stack off easily on a 10-high board.

i've raise preflop with suited hearts and JT before,... add that to anyones range

I'm almost 100% he folds J10 PF. I'm also pretty sure he just calls the turn with AhKh

[bigslikk]

Slowplayed QQQ getting anxious as the board becomes more drawy.

I mean, wouldn't an overpair raise flop?

[d0zer]

If you don't think villain will stack off with overpair/TPTK/2pr/flushdraw/misc hand that loses to bottom set, why call a PFR with 33 OOP?

I think my implied odds are there. I don't think he is a very good nit and will stack off easily on a 10-high board.

Should the rule of 15 be modified to like the rule of 30 or something if you only feel ok stacking off on a 10 high board after hitting yer set?

Not criticizing -- I know you've got far more experience on these higher levels than I. My 200NL experience consists of 7 hands...my 7th I stacked off when calling a PFR with 88 OOP, AJ8 board, villain had Jacks.

...so I'm kind of curious about bottom set at the higher limits vs the nit regs. To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?

[Deanglow]

To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?

This is way off. You will understand as you get better and move up in levels. Donks are everywhere and nits are kind of rare.

[djh860]

I lay down all kinds of good hands for a guy like him

[BankItDrew]

Should the rule of 15 be modified to like the rule of 30 or something if you only feel ok stacking off on a 10 high board after hitting yer set?

I use the 10x rule @ 200nl and it works for me

[vegascoop]

Might his PF range look like 99+,AQs+,KQs,AKo, which would be about 4.5 percent of hands considering everyone folds to him in the cutoff? I think we may be narrowing his range too much even though he is a NIT among NITs.

for my own benefit I would like to establish a preflop range and then work toward what hands would get to the turn and could then make that raise.

[Fnord]

All-in.

528 games 0.005 secs 105,600 games/sec

Board: 3h Qh 9d Kc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.864% 48.86% 00.00% 258 0.00 { 3c3d }
Hand 1: 51.136% 51.14% 00.00% 270 0.00 { QQ+ }

[nutsinho]

wtf guys AA doesnt fit the action AT ALL vs him. his range in order of likelihood is KK-QQ-99-KQ-rare JTs or bluff
fold

[Fnord]

If AA (and AK) are heavily discounted, then I can see a fold.

[Deanglow]

Results: I thought about it for a good five seconds and just "meh whatever it's a cooler and shoved." I was very surprised when he called with AA. I have another hand for your viewing pleasure.

Villain is 4/1 over 200 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($198.20)
UTG ($514.80)
MP1 ($240)
MP2 ($525)
CO ($554.40)
Button ($80)
Hero ($384.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3, 3.
1 fold, MP1 calls $4, MP2 raises to $20, 2 folds, Hero calls $18, 1 fold, MP1 calls $16.

Flop: ($64) J, A, 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: ($64) 3 (3 players)
Hero bets $44, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $88

[Fnord]

wtf guys AA doesnt fit the action AT ALL vs him.

AA is the nuts. LDO

On a more serious note, I think there is something said for trying to read too much into post-flop play given just pre-flop numbers. Particularly since it's aggro online poker.

[Fnord]

The second hand looks like a fold I've made a couple times.

edit: Consider a c/c on the turn.

[nutsinho]

yeah thats surprising but i think it just shows that he was a player with very low bet literacy as raising that turn with AA is definitely a bluff and the raise functions poorly as both a bluff and a value/protection bet

[Fnord]

yeah thats surprising but i think it just shows that he was a player with very low bet literacy as raising that turn with AA is definitely a bluff and the raise functions poorly as both a bluff and a value/protection bet

I think his line is pretty reasonable given the flop donk on a board with a little action. He wants to induce a follow-through bet, then stuff draws. The King was a pretty bad card, maybe bad enough to call again but he stuck to his game-plan anyway.

Besides, isn't c/c, bet all the rage with sets these days?

[d0zer]

To be honest, coming from a microstakes POV, it makes me question the value of even playing higher levels. Is it just a feeding frenzy of nits staying away from each other, all preying on the few gamblers passing by?

This is way off. You will understand as you get better and move up in levels. Donks are everywhere and nits are kind of rare.

Good to hear. Intuitively I know this, just the few times I've played outside my BR at 100/200NL I've run into some brutal negative variance / tight tables and it's skewed my perspective of how tough these limits are

[nutsinho]

Besides, isn't c/c, bet all the rage with sets these days?

on dry boards maybe, but here i would have checkraised bottom set 100% of the time