Playing QQ and JJ against unknowns.

[sil693]

Unknown villain.

100BB effective stacks.
Hero is dealt JJ, QQ in CO and makes standard 4xBB raise.
Villain 3bets from SB to 3.5x the initial raise.
Hero calls.
Flop comes 10xx if we have JJ, and Jxx if we have QQ.
Villain bets out 4/5 of the pot, whats our plan??

I really seem to struggle with this concept, my apologies if its really simple but I cant see how it is. If hero calls lots of turns are bad cards, if hero raises and villain calls - same applies regards to turn cards. If hero raises and villain shoves hero is somewhat committed. If hero folds surely we give up a ton of value. Cheers guys.

[minSim]

I call flop almost always against an unknown.
Not that much bad turns imo.
And I likely do that with almost all of my PP's.

If we know some things about villain, like if he's 3betting lighter and his cbet habits in 3bet pots, I might raise flop sometimes (without folding), but call is still standard for me.

Sometimes preflop 4-bet/shove with QQ if you know you can call a push/he's calling with worse. (this is unlikely at my stakes, possibly more at highers)

[will641]

i always call, and sometimes ill 4 bet QQ. it also depends on where you are raising from, because if you're raising otb, villains 3betting range will be much wider than if you raised utg. as far as postflop calls, i call w/ JJ, and i call with QQ. vs an unknown if he bet/shoves a blank turn, i probably give it up, because you are also unknown to him, so he has no idea if you like to slow play aces, or slow play sets, or whatever.

[tarath]

dunno what stakes your asking about, but I 4bet here a lot.

If you pokerrazor 4betting JJ assuming villian 3bets 10% and only calls with JJ+/AK you'll see its quite +EV.

[thizzSantaCruz]

whats this poker razor? The problem I see is if you 4 bet you have to stack to a 5 bet push 100bb deep.