5/10 - is this a standard shove?

[griffey24]

-I haven't been at this table for long at all, maybe 1-2 orbits
-UTG is a reg, but he plays kinda donkish sometimes. He floats a ton and a lot of times can't fold top pair or overpairs no matter how much aggression
-SB doesn't 3-bet that much, he often calls pretty solid hands preflop instead of 3-betting them. He spews sometimes, though it really depends on the day. I have no reads on him today


Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players


Stack sizes:
UTG: $2178.75
UTG+1: $1000
Hero: $1042
Button: $2110.50
SB: $2745
BB: $708

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with :Kd: :Ks:
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to $50, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: ($160, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $110, Hero raises to $260, SB raises to $435, UTG folds, Hero ??

[Cocco_Bill]

I shove this 100%. Folding is out of the question and calling just gives him a free card to hit his outs for a large part of his range while pot committing you.

[sauce123]

i dont get ur flop raise size

[griffey24]

i dont get ur flop raise size

Ok, I'm actually SB in this hand. But I'm wondering from villains perspective, if he should always be felting KK.

[pocketfours]

3-bet more

[sauce123]

yes, kk should be shoving

[Toadstool]

I don't think this is a stack off, SB probably knows that Hero has an overpair here and probably expects him to stack off, thats without even factoring UTG into the equation who can't fold an overpair. This is almost never a bluff so KK is either crushed against a FH/3 of a kind or flipping against a flush draw...with FH/3 of a kind more likely - you don't have much equity against this range. The only benefit of stacking off here is that you are less likely to be bluffed in the future, looking at it it may even be a slowplayed AA as SB doesn't 3 bet much.

[griffey24]

I don't think this is a stack off, SB probably knows that Hero has an overpair here and probably expects him to stack off, thats without even factoring UTG into the equation who can't fold an overpair. This is almost never a bluff so KK is either crushed against a FH/3 of a kind or flipping against a flush draw...with FH/3 of a kind more likely - you don't have much equity against this range. The only benefit of stacking off here is that you are less likely to be bluffed in the future, looking at it it may even be a slowplayed AA as SB doesn't 3 bet much.

This was pretty much my line of thought as well. SB's line looks really strong, 3-betting both UTG and the PF raisers flop raise.

Given that I was SB in this hand, this pretty much comes down to what level I'm on with hero, and whether or not I believe he can fold. I just figured that more people would at least think about a fold with KK here, but seems like most are insta-stacking.

as an aside - even though I 3-bet less than most, I'd probably always 3-bet KK-AA, but JJ-QQ are flatted pre a fair amount.