I Prefer 6max to Full-Ring and recent HH's

[johnnyBuz]

Okay okay okay, I am back one more time. Only this time I fully cleared my mind, acquired a new bank account, and signed up on a new site.

So, I used my new account to sign up for the 100% Deposit Bonus on Full-Tilt while utilizing Rakeback.org to get my 27% back. I'm really enjoying that combination.

In the begining of this run, I played all full-ring and a few SnG's and had absolutely no fun. I lost my $200 roll to $70 due to bad-beats and bad-play. Then I said "eff it" and moved back to what I love, 6-max play.

I am running very well at 6-max right now with a hefty amount of variance in session-to-session play, but I am having fun and finishing up basically every session.

I brought the $70 up to $215 then got my first $20 from the bonus to $230. I don't see myself ever going back to Full-ring until I move up to 50NL (when I am bankrolled) to see how the game is played.

Basically this is a rant and a declaration: I LOVE SHORT-HAND and HATE FULL-RING.

Is there anyone else out there that shares my view on this?

[WillburForce]

I only play 6max (plus the odd MTT).

I've tried FR a coupla times and obviously its better for more tables - but I personally find it dull. I like 4-6 tables of 6 max - lots of action and I feel like I can actually play some poker.

[johnnyBuz]

Okay I got the itch to play again and got seated at an especially juicy table. Here are a few hands that hopefully show why I prefer 6-max to Full-ring. Somewhat joking, I have a short attention span. I like keeping track of 5 other players instead of 7-9. I also like to play somewhat (very?) aggressively and feel like I am gaining a helluva lot more experience in 6max then I ever did in ring. My personal opinion is, 6max teaches you to play poker while full-ring teaches you to play the cards.

Without further ado, here are the hands. I'll leave out the showdowns until later on to here some feedback. I watched the table for 15 hands before sitting in, then mostly folded my first 10 to get a feel for the players. Then I began getting aggressive stealing blinds for 4 of the next 10 and then these events transpired in a very short time-span.

*Aside #1: Skill I am learning, you have to have the balls (or female equivalent) to put the money into the pot if you want to win.

BTW, my new name is "aempirei"

Hand 1:
Full Tilt Poker Game #6055153079: Table Udine (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:31:49 ET - 2008/04/16
Seat 1: artur202 ($9.50)
Seat 2: Code3Daddy ($26)
Seat 3: mathew21c ($34.50)
Seat 4: amandalynn_44 ($36.55)
Seat 5: aempirei ($25.10)
Seat 6: sense41512 ($26.15)
mathew21c posts the small blind of $0.10
amandalynn_44 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [8s 9h]
aempirei raises to $0.85
sense41512 folds
artur202 folds
Code3Daddy folds
mathew21c folds
amandalynn_44 calls $0.60
*** FLOP *** [4h Td 7h]
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 bets $1.80
aempirei calls $1.80
*** TURN *** [4h Td 7h] [2h]
amandalynn_44 checks
aempirei bets $4

Hand 2: Had a read on the guy that he likes to steal blinds and willing to fight back to defense. Fire with fire kind of guy but willing to make a laydown if he thinks he is beat.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6055162211: Table Udine (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:33:53 ET - 2008/04/16
Seat 1: artur202 ($9.50)
Seat 2: Code3Daddy ($26)
Seat 3: mathew21c ($34.75)
Seat 4: amandalynn_44 ($32.90)
Seat 5: aempirei ($27.25)
Seat 6: sense41512 ($27.05)
sense41512 posts the small blind of $0.10
artur202 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [Jd 8h]
Code3Daddy folds
mathew21c raises to $0.85
amandalynn_44 folds
aempirei has 15 seconds left to act
aempirei raises to $1.65
sense41512 folds
artur202 folds
mathew21c calls $0.80
*** FLOP *** [4h Th 4s]
mathew21c checks
aempirei bets $2.75
mathew21c calls $2.75
*** TURN *** [4h Th 4s] [2d]
mathew21c checks
aempirei bets $6.50

Next: Stole 4 of the next 8 blinds with $0.85 preflop raises uncontested.

Hand 3: Stacks were deep, $30+ each, call seemed standard for set-mining.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6055177057: Table Udine (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:37:11 ET - 2008/04/16
Seat 1: artur202 ($9.40)
Seat 2: Code3Daddy ($26.30)
Seat 3: mathew21c ($30)
Seat 4: amandalynn_44 ($32.15)
Seat 5: aempirei ($33)
Seat 6: sense41512 ($26.95)
amandalynn_44 posts the small blind of $0.10
aempirei posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [6s 6d]
sense41512 raises to $1
artur202 folds
Code3Daddy folds
mathew21c folds
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 raises to $3.25
aempirei calls $3
sense41512 calls $2.25
*** FLOP *** [Th Jd 4s]
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 bets $4.25
aempirei has 15 seconds left to act
aempirei folds
sense41512 adds $1.30
sense41512 folds
Uncalled bet of $4.25 returned to amandalynn_44
amandalynn_44 mucks
amandalynn_44 wins the pot ($9.30)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.75 | Rake $0.45

Hand 4: I have been making re-raising in 6max a larger part of my game but I am still learning and don't always know when to apply it. From my own experience and from reading, people play and are very willing to bet marginal hands, especially C-Bets on the flop. I thought I made a good play here.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6055192248: Table Udine (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:40:37 ET - 2008/04/16
Seat 1: artur202 ($9.45)
Seat 2: Code3Daddy ($25.95)
Seat 3: mathew21c ($31.80)
Seat 4: amandalynn_44 ($38.05)
Seat 5: aempirei ($30.60)
Seat 6: sense41512 ($25)
amandalynn_44 posts the small blind of $0.10
aempirei posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [Jc Qh]
sense41512 folds
artur202 folds
Code3Daddy folds
mathew21c folds
amandalynn_44 raises to $0.75
aempirei has 15 seconds left to act
aempirei calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [Kc 8c Qd]
amandalynn_44 bets $1.50
aempirei raises to $3.50

Hand 5: Okay this hand I don't know if I will receive praise or flack, but don't be shy and tell it like it is. One of my toughest hands of the past 2 weeks.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6055196619: Table Udine (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:41:31 ET - 2008/04/16
Seat 1: artur202 ($9.45)
Seat 2: Code3Daddy ($25.95)
Seat 3: mathew21c ($31.80)
Seat 4: amandalynn_44 ($35.80)
Seat 5: aempirei ($32.65)
Seat 6: sense41512 ($25)
aempirei posts the small blind of $0.10
sense41512 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [Qc Kd]
artur202 has 15 seconds left to act
artur202 folds
Code3Daddy folds
mathew21c raises to $0.85
amandalynn_44 calls $0.85
aempirei raises to $2
sense41512 adds $0.25
sense41512 folds
mathew21c calls $1.15
amandalynn_44 calls $1.15
*** FLOP *** [Ts 8h Qd]
aempirei bets $5
mathew21c has 15 seconds left to act
mathew21c raises to $10
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 folds
aempirei has 15 seconds left to act
aempirei raises to $20
mathew21c has 15 seconds left to act
mathew21c raises to $29.80, and is all in
aempirei calls $9.80

Hand 6: Two hands after the previous. Did I bet the river too hard or is this enticing a call with an over-bet? Personally, I think he was trying an expensive steal with a 2-pair. Was hoping he'd have a set and call.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6055206482: Table Udine (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 5:43:39 ET - 2008/04/16
Seat 1: artur202 ($9.55)
Seat 2: Code3Daddy ($25.95)
Seat 3: gaalcsibi ($25)
Seat 4: amandalynn_44 ($33.80)
Seat 5: aempirei ($xx.xx)
Seat 6: sense41512 ($25)
artur202 posts the small blind of $0.10
Code3Daddy posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [Kd Ad]
aempirei: thats 6max for you
amandalynn_44 raises to $0.85
aempirei raises to $1.85
sense41512 folds
artur202 folds
Code3Daddy folds
amandalynn_44 calls $1
*** FLOP *** [7c Qc 2d]
amandalynn_44 checks
aempirei bets $2.50
amandalynn_44 calls $2.50
*** TURN *** [7c Qc 2d] [Ts]
amandalynn_44 checks
aempirei checks
*** RIVER *** [7c Qc 2d Ts] [Jd]
amandalynn_44 bets $9.05
aempirei has 15 seconds left to act
aempirei raises to $30

So these are the hands from my recent session of 20-30 minutes. I'm calling it a night due to fatigue and satisfaction, but am definitely looking for strong constructive criticism based on the plays I made.

Thanks in advance everyone and I'm glad to be back (again!),
- johnny

[The Odds God]

FR is so nitty, it doesn't suit me. I am a lifetime loser at FR (I haven't played much though, but whenever I play it, I lose). In FR, people always have AA, while in 6max, people always have nothing.

But it should probably be profitable, because there are a lot of fishes. I would just have to study FR more. But it is so boring and I hate folding overpairs and stuff which you have to do at FR, I think.

[Genitruc]

imo full-ring is the new 6 max

the strong tagg to fish ratio is wayyyy better than at most 6-max tables (at least where I've been playing lately)

[johnnyBuz]

Ok maybe it was swings/variance, but I feel like the talent pool at Full Tilt during the afternoon and the nightime hours is like Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hide.

At night people are just throwing their money away at you. I ran poor earlier this afternoon and was down $45. Now for this session of 40 minutes I am currently up $75 at 25NL which seems absurd. People must be drunk at night or something because they are much more passive, don't defend as much and push with extremely marginal hands.

I'm luvin' it.

Edit:* All-in preflop my KK vs. his QQ.
Make that up $95 for the session.

[bode]

Ok maybe it was swings/variance, but I feel like the talent pool at Full Tilt during the afternoon and the nightime hours is like Dr. Jekyl & Mr. Hide.

At night people are just throwing their money away at you. I ran poor earlier this afternoon and was down $45. Now for this session of 40 minutes I am currently up $75 at 25NL which seems absurd. People must be drunk at night or something because they are much more passive, don't defend as much and push with extremely marginal hands.

I'm luvin' it.

Edit:* All-in preflop my KK vs. his QQ.
Make that up $95 for the session.

dude, youve been around long enough that you should realize that you cant sweat the ups and downs of a session. especially a short 40 minute session.

[martindcx1e]

how about don't play $25nl with a $300 bankroll?

[nutsinho]

hands 2-5 are pretty bad

[martindcx1e]

1) Fold preflop
2) Fold preflop
3) Fold preflop
4) Fold preflop
5) Vomit

[johnnyBuz]

1) Fold preflop
2) Fold preflop
3) Fold preflop
4) Fold preflop
5) Vomit

1) why?
2) why?
3) why?
4) why?
5) why?

[johnnyBuz]

here's how the hands ended

Hand 1:
aempirei bets $4
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 folds
Uncalled bet of $4 returned to aempirei
aempirei mucks
aempirei wins the pot ($5.15)

Hand 2:
aempirei bets $6.50
mathew21c has 15 seconds left to act
mathew21c folds
Uncalled bet of $6.50 returned to aempirei
aempirei mucks
aempirei wins the pot ($8.70)

Hand 3:
uhm.. why is it bad to call the raise when effective stacks are 20x the raise of $3? if i pull a set here i am probably stacking one of them

Hand 4:
amandalynn_44 bets $1.50
aempirei raises to $3.50
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 folds
Uncalled bet of $2 returned to aempirei
aempirei mucks
aempirei wins the pot ($4.30)

Hand 5:
*** FLOP *** [Ts 8h Qd]
aempirei bets $5
mathew21c has 15 seconds left to act
mathew21c raises to $10
amandalynn_44 has 15 seconds left to act
amandalynn_44 folds
aempirei has 15 seconds left to act
aempirei raises to $20
mathew21c has 15 seconds left to act
mathew21c raises to $29.80, and is all in
aempirei calls $9.80
mathew21c shows [Js Ks]
aempirei shows [Qc Kd]
*** TURN *** [Ts 8h Qd] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [Ts 8h Qd Jd] [7c]
mathew21c shows a pair of Jacks
aempirei shows a pair of Queens
aempirei wins the pot ($62.85) with a pair of Queens

[johnnyBuz]

you probably wouldnt like this one either

Full Tilt Poker Game #6117086729: Table Beta (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:54:57 ET - 2008/04/21
Seat 1: djm5255 ($26.40)
Seat 2: ATREYU43 ($8.65)
Seat 3: rastarobin ($65.95)
Seat 4: Runner60 ($29.70)
Seat 5: kmillerxoxo ($4.60)
Seat 6: aempirei ($52.95)
ATREYU43 posts the small blind of $0.10
rastarobin posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aempirei [2s 7d]
Runner60 folds
kmillerxoxo folds
aempirei raises to $0.85
djm5255 calls $0.85
ATREYU43 calls $0.75
rastarobin calls $0.60
*** FLOP *** [Ad 2h 2d]
ATREYU43 checks
rastarobin checks
aempirei bets $2.25
djm5255 folds
ATREYU43 folds
rastarobin calls $2.25
*** TURN *** [Ad 2h 2d] [9c]
rastarobin checks
aempirei bets $8
rastarobin calls $8
*** RIVER *** [Ad 2h 2d 9c] [Kc]
rastarobin checks
aempirei bets $20
rastarobin calls $20

[johnnyBuz]

btw, can anyone decipher what these statistics are saying. does it mean i'm not getting paid off on my strong hands or can it be attributed to variance in the cards? i've just had a session where i am -$60 on 315 hands as follows:

Statistics for 315 Hands

Street	Saw	Saw/Total
Flop	104	33%
Turn	51	16%
River	27	9%
Showdown	18	6%

Street	Won	Won/Saw	Won/Total
Pre-flop	41	13%	13%
Flop	32	31%	10%
Turn	19	37%	6%
River	2	7%	1%
Showdown	3	17%	1%

[martindcx1e]

1) Fold preflop
2) Fold preflop
3) Fold preflop
4) Fold preflop
5) Vomit

1) why?
2) why?
3) why?
4) why?
5) why?

1) Because you are in absolutely terrible position with a hand that has very little value.

2) His pfr is not from a blind stealing position. You can't just treat every pfr of his as a blatant blind steal. And at least fight back with something better than J8o.

3) Stacks are not deep enough to set mine

Hand 3:
uhm.. why is it bad to call the raise when effective stacks are 20x the raise of $3?

20 x $3 = $60. You have $33 which is 11x the $3 to you.

4) I usually just give this up preflop unless btn has shown himself to steal a lot. I think I'd rather 3bet than call though. You are OOP and aren't likely to win much of a pot in this spot with this hand.

5) I just am not usually happy about getting it all in the middle with TPGK in a 3way 3bet pot without some kind of read.

[martindcx1e]

also, with your 72o hand...why are you doing this? is it to show it down and hope ppl play back at you or what?

[AnTman_69]

Im relatively new to the game....so my advice doesnt have much credibility. But..i think ur playing to many hands...making high risk raises and playing underolled. My advice to you would be to..move down instakes..to .05/.10 until u can string together a good amount of winning sessions...to prove to urself ur a ..'winning player'...then move up.

[Vrax]

btw, can anyone decipher what these statistics are saying.

Those statistics combined with your results and mental approach to the game are saying, that you're well on your way to Brokesville.

- You base your skill on tiny # of hands
- You're heavily underrolled
- You make bad plays that condition you to playing bad poker.
- You make high variance plays with questionable EV

...and you think that you currently crush the game for solid ptbb/100, when in fact you don't.

Cut down those aggrodonk plays plz, unless you plan to play on my tables

[mcatdog]

also, with your 72o hand...why are you doing this? is it to show it down and hope ppl play back at you or what?

He's doing this because he's an action junkie and he likes to make pointless plays with horrible hands for no other reason than he gets bored with folding. Now he's posting these hands to brag about what an awesome bluffer he is, but when a few of his bluffs in a row get called, he'll start another thread about how unfair poker is and how he's busto, just like he has a few times before.

Just trying to help.

[martindcx1e]

also, with your 72o hand...why are you doing this? is it to show it down and hope ppl play back at you or what?

He's doing this because he's an action junkie and he likes to make pointless plays with horrible hands for no other reason than he gets bored with folding. Now he's posting these hands to brag about what an awesome bluffer he is, but when a few of his bluffs in a row get called, he'll start another thread about how unfair poker is and how he's busto, just like he has a few times before.

Just trying to help.

ya no doubt mcat. i was just being nice

[jyms]

1) Fold preflop
2) Fold preflop
3) Fold preflop
4) Fold preflop
5) Vomit

1) why?
2) why?
3) why?
4) why?
5) why?

1) Because you are in absolutely terrible position with a hand that has very little value.

2) His pfr is not from a blind stealing position. You can't just treat every pfr of his as a blatant blind steal. And at least fight back with something better than J8o.

3) Stacks are not deep enough to set mine

Hand 3:
uhm.. why is it bad to call the raise when effective stacks are 20x the raise of $3?

20 x $3 = $60. You have $33 which is 11x the $3 to you.

4) I usually just give this up preflop unless btn has shown himself to steal a lot. I think I'd rather 3bet than call though. You are OOP and aren't likely to win much of a pot in this spot with this hand.

5) I just am not usually happy about getting it all in the middle with TPGK in a 3way 3bet pot without some kind of read.

This is only the beginning and martin took it easy on you. Some of these hands are played wo wrong I wonder how much you actually know about poker theory. You will not survie $25NL without a ton of luck.

[johnnyBuz]

so what is a proper lagg or tagg strategy i can employ? you have to play with what fits your personality, and an aggressive role is what will work for me.

but i am getting mixed feelings regarding some of the hands. in the 66 example, $3 to see a flop with potential $60+ from the other two players. how is that a bad call?

this isnt full ring either. people play very poor hands (myself included) that it almost seems worth it to play more hands and win many small pots.

so lets say i am playing some junk, if everyone else is, how can i play a high number of hands while coming out on top? conservative is not the way to win pots at 6max.

WHAT I'VE DISCOVERED AFTER ~2000 HANDS AT FULL-TILT 25NL
1) Softest games are M-F 10:00pm onward
2) Tables are either ultra-passive and I can roll over them or very passive-aggressive. ie: 50% of the hands the ultra-passive would fold to me the passive-aggressive tables now check/call or check/raise. How to combat this?
3) Good session after good session is just not feasible indefinitely.
4) A lot of my plays are based on reads, and I know I've made many more +EV decisions then -EV ones, but I definitely made too many -EV decisions.

[johnnyBuz]

also, with your 72o hand...why are you doing this? is it to show it down and hope ppl play back at you or what?

I'm hoping to steal the 0.35cents from a passive table. If I get called, I am looking for it to be by a passive player that will more often then not fold to a continuation-bet. If he comes out firing, unless I hit it hard I give it up. But some of my biggest wins have come from junk like this.

I don't like showing down bad cards, ideally the only time I would show is with the best of it, but playing enough hands that they KNOW I don't always have it, but whenever they seem to call I DO have it. That is my goal to strive to.

[AnTman_69]

Are you a 'long term' winning player buz? Not just over a few sessions...but over say...50,000k hands?

[johnnyBuz]

@Antman, i havn't played 50k hands online. i'de say maybe 12k total.

ugh this is such a game of discipline and long-term vision. so i read all of these comments and played a more disciplined game tonight. i was up about $40 over 300 hands and was getting ready to call it a night.

i loosened up a little as the session went on and i saw the table dynamic develop. then i was served up this.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($24.80)
Hero ($58.30)
SB ($54.20)
BB ($6.90)
UTG ($19.55)
MP ($39.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, 9.
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.8, SB calls $0.70, 1 fold.

Flop: ($1.85) T, T, 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2.

Turn: ($5.85) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.5, SB raises to $7.5, Hero raises to $15, SB calls $5.

River: ($33.35) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30, SB raises to $38.9 (All-In), Hero calls $8.90.

Final Pot: $111.15

[martindcx1e]

so what is a proper lagg or tagg strategy i can employ? you have to play with what fits your personality, and an aggressive role is what will work for me.

you have to play whatever is +EV at a certain point in time.

but i am getting mixed feelings regarding some of the hands. in the 66 example, $3 to see a flop with potential $60+ from the other two players. how is that a bad call?

you can't call based on the really really slim chance that you will triple up if you hit a set. you don't base your odds on both of their stacks combined. you base it on effective stack size.