A couple 3-bet pots

[Galapogos]

This guy runs at 38/18/3.33 over 150 hands and never folds to a 3-bet preflop. Everytime it's gone post flop he raises or folds. Should I continue to bet here or am I only getting called by hands that smash me? Judging by his play so far I assume he would be c/r a draw but I can't say for sure.

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($44.05)
UTG 1 ($88.80)
CO ($103.55)
Hero ($98.50)
SB ($55.90)
BB ($100.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 6 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, UTG 1 bets $3.50, 1 fold, Hero bets $14, 2 folds, UTG 1 calls $10.50.

Flop: ($29.5, 2 players)
UTG 1 checks, Hero bets $18, UTG 1 calls $18.

Turn: ($65.5, 2 players)
UTG 1 checks, Hero...



No real reads on this guy. I really shouldn't have called the 3-bet preflop. Given that I have, what do you make of his play here?

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($17.05)
Hero ($98.50)
SB ($99.00)
BB ($98.70)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 4 players) Hero is BTN
1 fold, Hero bets $4, 1 fold, BB bets $11, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($24.5, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $16, BB calls $16.

Turn: ($56.5, 2 players)
BB bets $44, Hero...

[zook]

1. Versus this guy I bet closer to pot on the flop and jam the turn. As played, still jam the turn. He may be slowplaying, but AQ and KQ are easily in his range too.

2. Yeah, pre-flop is close. Check behind the flop. You're wa/wb and don't want to get c/r'ed. Free cards are unlikely to hurt vs. a normal 3bet range, so try to get to showdown cheaply. As played I think I fold to the turn bet, but his line doesn't make much sense.

[Silly String]

Hand #1, Given the description I bet again and value town his AQ-KJ. If he raised the flop what was your play? So what did the turn change? He range seems exceedingly wide and he hasn't shown strength yet.

Hand #2, Like you said I wouldn't call an unknown with AQo even to such a small 3bet. As played his range is really wide and I don't know what to think of it. I think he easily has a T or a couple clubs here and the 9 helped him by adding a str8 draw. Or he's terrible & worried you'll check behind and wants to get value. I probably push over b/c he's unknown & I have TPTK in a 3bet pot, that's the nuts at 100NL right? God, I wish we had any kind of read here.

Tell me what you think of my ranges. I maybe being generous, but he is unknown & either passive or terrible at poker given his flop/turn line:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
2,112 games 0.005 secs 422,400 games/sec
Board: 4d Qc Jc 9h
Dead:
equity win
Hand 0: 52.225% 45.98% 06.25% { AcQd }
Hand 1: 47.775% 41.52% 06.25% { 99+, AJs+, KJs+, JTs, AQo, KQo }

[Galapogos]

Hand #1, Given the description I bet again and value town his AQ-KJ. If he raised the flop what was your play? So what did the turn change? He range seems exceedingly wide and he hasn't shown strength yet.

Well it's just the fact that this play didn't match anything he had done previously in a 3-bet pot, and people like to get tarppy. If he raised I snap call, it's so drawy.

Tell me what you think of my ranges. I maybe being generous, but he is unknown & either passive or terrible at poker given his flop/turn line:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
2,112 games 0.005 secs 422,400 games/sec
Board: 4d Qc Jc 9h
Dead:
equity win
Hand 0: 52.225% 45.98% 06.25% { AcQd }
Hand 1: 47.775% 41.52% 06.25% { 99+, AJs+, KJs+, JTs, AQo, KQo }

I always have a hard time putting ranges on unknowns in pots that are played weird. I think there should definitely be a couple hands that have me crushed in there. I know the boards drawy but people are so dumb.

[Silly String]

Well it's just the fact that this play didn't match anything he had done previously in a 3-bet pot, and people like to get tarppy. If he raised I snap call, it's so drawy.

I agree that people get very trappy and play big hands slow, but per your read the villain could have a wide range here. I still stack here and call it a cooler if he out flopped me. I think your "never folds to a 3-bet preflop" read outweighs the strange line. You said you only have 150 hands on him which begs the question how many 3bet pots you've been in with him to get the raise/fold read on his lines?

[Galapogos]

Well it's just the fact that this play didn't match anything he had done previously in a 3-bet pot, and people like to get tarppy. If he raised I snap call, it's so drawy.

I agree that people get very trappy and play big hands slow, but per your read the villain could have a wide range here. I still stack here and call it a cooler if he out flopped me. I think your "never folds to a 3-bet preflop" read outweighs the strange line. You said you only have 150 hands on him which begs the question how many 3bet pots you've been in with him to get the raise/fold read on his lines?

I'm not really worried he outflopped me. I just wonder if it's better to check back the turn to make 99 or AJ or whatever feel a little more comfortable. If he had a draw, I'm sure he's very likely to crai on the flop. So I'm trying to get more value out of 99 or a pair of jacks. Or am I getting to fancy for a 3-bet pot?

[Silly String]

Wow, sometimes I'm thick headed. Now I see what you mean.

[Ash256]

1) I probs pot it, I think your TARP alarms are more than justified though.
2) I love a check behind on the flop because you have the A

[Juked07]

Sorry to make a post that isn't particularly constructive, but Ash could you elaborate on why you check behind flop on 2? Shouldn't we almost always value bet TPTK? Why does holding the Ac change that?

[Ash256]

Sorry to make a post that isn't particularly constructive, but Ash could you elaborate on why you check behind flop on 2? Shouldn't we almost always value bet TPTK? Why does holding the Ac change that?

It's just opinion and I'm not that good at poker so don't take this as gospel, but:-

He 3bet pre from BB after you raised button, so I'd peg his range at something like 99-AA, AQ-AK with some other stuff mixed in but I like to think of majority. He probably bets flop with AQ, AA and KK, leaving his range at 99-QQ. If you bet, he's probably folding 99 and TT leaving just QQ and JJ in his range. (NOTE: the more I close down ranges the bigger the possibility of error)

The reason it's nice to have the Ac here is that often a reason to never slowplay strength is that draws (esp. flushdraws) complete either killing your action or making your opponent a hand.

We have the Ac, so we aren't as bothered about a club coming on the turn - we can vbet vs. a Kc, have outs if we get it in bad and have backup if we can't tell whether he's bluffing or vbetting and it turns out he's vbetting.


FTR regs: Please point out flaws in my reasoning.