Play Money Pro to Real Money Noob

[daeyeth]

I've never played with real money before this. EVER! This will be an interesting experiment in how much can you really learn from play money. I'll be playing on PokerStars as that's where I played in play money.

GOAL: Turn 50$ into 1000$ for a computer
Honestly, to me, someone who has never played for real money before, this ain't an operation, it's an experiment, and it's not a goal, it's a dream.

PROGRESS 11/5: If my goal is a dream, then these are my "real" goals
Win a small SnG............................................... .............Incomplete
Win a big SnG............................................... ................Incomplete
Profit 300$ from $5NL.............................................. .....-10%
Profit 150$ from $4NL.............................................. .....0%
Profit 50$ from $2NL.............................................. .......40%
Watch All of Tight Poker's Videos..................................10%
Complete FTP's Poker Academy (Bronze).....................100%
Read entire Beginner's Digest......................................100%
Unlock All-In (see note #3)..........................................100%
Make the cash in an SnG..............................................Complete
Understand Entire Poker Glossary...............................100%

Bankroll Growth............................................ ................224% (-28)

Note-to-Self: Re-read notes every time before you start playing and before a big hand

• Note-to-Self #26: Let the game come to you (tight) instead of chasing after the game (loose)
• Note-to-Self #25: The better your hand is, the more you should protect it, the more you should bet
• Note-to-Self #24: When cbetting, put the board texture into the context of your opponent. Who would call this call this cbet? Would anyone call this cbet?
• Note-to-Self #23: Maintain perspective in the immediate moment. Don't think about what you did wrong after the hand, think about it during the hand
• Note-to-Self #22: Always look up opponent's stats and notes when in a confrontation

ABOUT ME: I'm a gamer. I probably wouldn't be playing poker if my gaming computer hadn't broke. I love all games, from chess to Half-Life to the Sims to Desktop Tower Defense to poker to monopoly. Games are awesome.

POKER EXPERIENCE: Mediocre
I started poker a year ago after becoming addicted to watching it on TV and have been playing play money for about 6 months, every other day, for a couple hours, and solely SnGs and tournies.

ON PLAY MONEY:
Since my poker background consists entirely from play money poker, I feel the need to divulge in this. Feel free to skip this!

Play money is a simulation of poker. How much you learn from this simulation depends on how seriously you take it. You need to care about your chips and play against other people who care about their chips. The higher the stakes, the more likely people will care their chips (kind of), and the longer they're playing in the tournies/SnG, the more likely people are playing seriously (kind of).

I say kind of because it's still just play money. Sometimes the longer they're playing, the more likely they'll just throw away their chips because they're tired of playing and sometimes the higher the stakes, the more likely people will become throw away their chips in a chance to win big. To read people on play money, that's all you have to understand. People won't bet with nothing because there's nothing to gain.

Soon after I realized I could read people was when I realized there is a crystal clear limit of play money. You are risking nothing, they're still just meaningless points. Play money cannot simulate the feeling of playing with real money.

But if since I understand that, I think I learned a LOT, play money or not. It's still the same game, it's still poker, just a child's version of it. That's why I have a lot of confidence in my poker skills. Time to find out if my confidence is misplaced!

[daeyeth]

Old Notes

• Note-to-Self #21: 4 bet is a monster, don't ever assume they're just bad or stubborn if you have no stats on them. Don't ever call that with the second best hand
• Note-to-Self #20: Don't raise all in if you're only doing it hoping he folds and you have no idea what he has. If the only guy that's gonna call you is the one that has you beat, don't go all in. Don't get married to Kings with an ace on the board
• Note-to-Self #19: SB/BB - Don't call with garbage, either raise or fold
• Note-to-Self #18: Don't cbet in a multiway pot without at least TPTK or with position
• Note-to-Self #17: When making cbets, first ask yourself the purpose. Do you want him to fold or call? Will he fold or call? Don't just blindly follow the motions
• Note-to-Self #16: Things to turn into a habit: consider pots odds, implied odds, opponent's position, and opponent's stats before acting
• Note-to-Self #15: Keep asking yourself questions over and over and over again during a hand. Ask yourself good questions and you'll get good answers
• Note-to-Self #14: Don't let small stacks push you around. Instead of him forcing you to make a decision to call his all in, force him to make a decision for his chips. Only play with short stacks if you're ready to commit to that, you cannot play passive or timid against them
• Note-to-Self #13: Keep pots small with TPGK, middle pair
• Note-to-Self #12: Don't understand what's going on in a multiway pot? Fold
• Note-to-Self #11: Adjust your expectations. You must expect to lose every once in a while, you cannot and will not win every session
• Note-to-Self #10: When you have the nuts, create a big pot as quickly as possible, with the goal to eventually get all the chips in. If they fold then they weren't gonna pay you off to begin with anyways
• Note-to-Self #9: Don't cbet into unknown players, get a feel for the table first.
• Note-to-Self #8: Don't fret the losses because it's only short-term. Just remember poker is a long term investment, it's only a matter of time before you make it back as long as you use bankroll management.
• Note-to-Self #7: Renton's Guide - Play two pair just like TPTK, including folding where you would w/ TPTK. Bet/raise nut flush draw. Don't slow play sets, bet/raise/reraise. Full houses or made nut flushes are the only hands you should consider slow playing
• Note-to-Self #6: Set/Two Pair Defense - If someone calls your flop cbet, reconsider the strength of your TPTK instead of assuming they're making a bad call with a dominated or middle pair. You most especially must do this on boards with no draws
• Note-to-Self #5: Never forget to consider pots odds, implied odds, and how many outs you have when calling bets/raises
• Note-to-Self #4: Always always always remember to think about what your opponent has before doing anything
• Note-to-Self #3: Unless you have a monster made hand, you are hereby banned from going all-in until your bankroll is at 120%
• Note-to-Self #2: Don't limp, raise or fold. Also, check to keep pots small with medium hands
• Note-to-Self #1: Always tight, always conservative, no all-ins without the best hand. Not good enough to do otherwise, not yet.

Cheat Sheet - compiled from various guides

Level 0: What do I have?
Level 1: What does my opponent have?
Level 2: What does my opponent think I have?
Level 3: What does my opponent think that I think they have?
Level 4: What does my opponent think that I think they think I have?

- SB & BB -
RAISE: JJ+, AK
LIMP: 22+, AJ+, KJ+, 78s+, Axs+, Kxs+

- UTG -
RAISE: 99+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs
LIMP: 88-

- MP -
RAISE: 99+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs
RAISE (6th): 99+, ATs+, AJo+, KJs, KQo
LIMP: 88-
CALL: AQs, 99-JJ
RERAISE: QQ+, AK

- LP -
RAISE: 99+, ATo+, A8s+, KJo+, KTs+
LIMP: 88-, 54s+, 86s+, T7s+, Axs+
CALL: AQs, 99-JJ
RERAISE: QQ+, AK

- BTN -
RAISE: 99+, ATo+, A8s+, KJo+, KTs+
RAISE (folded to): 22+, A8o+, Axs+, KTo+, K8s+, 98s+, J9s+, JTo+
LIMP: 22+, 43s+, 54o+, 64s+, 97o+, 85s+, Axs+, Kxs+
CALL: AQs, 99-JJ
RERAISE: QQ+, AK

- Flop Odds -
25% Pair
10% Set
10% Flush Draw
10% Open-Ended Straight Draw (0 Gap/JT)
8% Open-Ended Straight Draw (1 Gap/QT)
5% Open-Ended Straight Draw (2 Gap/KT)
3% Open-Ended Straight Draw (3 Gap/AT)
2% Two Pair

- Turn & River Odds -

17% Gutshot (4 Outs)
24% Two Overs (6 Outs)
31% Open Ended (8 Outs)
35% Flush Draw (9 Outs)
45% Flush + Gutshot (12 Outs)
54% Flush + Open Ended (15 Outs)

- River Odds -

8% Gutshot (4 Outs)
13% Two Overs (6 Outs)
17% Open Ended (8 Outs)
19% Flush Draw (9 Outs)
26% Flush + Gutshot (12 Outs)
32% Flush + Open Ended (15 Outs)


Retro edited, not original post

[spoonitnow]

Inside of 221 hands, you'll *average* getting each pocket pair once.

[daven]

POKER EXPERIENCE: Average

it's all relative

Complete FTP's Poker Academy......................0%

don't focus on this too hard.
Also, i hope you have rakeback set up on your full tilt account, if you haven't already started playing cash on your old play money account - then DON'T!!! ask here about which site you should play first, rakeback, etc

play money or not. It's still the same game, it's still poker, just a child's version of it. That's why I have a lot of confidence in my poker skills. Time to find out if my confidence is misplaced!

so long as you know there is a long way to go - and you've already acknowledged that above. 2nl probably doesn't play too much differently from the bigger play money games (i'm guessing, haven't done the play money thing)

[daven]

Flop comes 8 10 6. He checks, I check. Turn is 4. I do a pot sized bet hoping he calls think I'm stealing it. He calls. River is King. I'm thinking, great! Hopefully he caught a pair of kings. He bets, I raise, and then he re-raises. Not once do I think I'm beat. I go all-in and he calls. Two pair, Kings and 8s.

bet the %&*$%& flop. Turn bet is good.
beating 2nl is all about value betting. Don't slow play, bet close to pot when you're ahead, fold to big raises/resistance without big hands/reads.

Remembering that two pair beat down, I made sure people folded early when I had the best hand because I was afraid of getting drawn out again.

this is probably bad, what exactly do you mean by this?

[daeyeth]

so long as you know there is a long way to go - and you've already acknowledged that above. 2nl probably doesn't play too much differently from the bigger play money games (i'm guessing, haven't done the play money thing)

It is, actually, and it's kind of annoying -_- I mean, it feels like no matter what I raise I'll get 3-4 callers! And ppl limp in so much it's hard not to do it as well. The only difference is ppl use bluffs here.

this is probably bad, what exactly do you mean by this?

Meaning like I make an awkwardly big raise of 5x the BB pre-flop with QQ or even if the flop is 8h 10h 6s, I'll bet nearly the pot to take the hand down right there, paranoid of a flush. It also relates to the above. I feel like I have to bet big just to make sure there's not 20 callers.

[daeyeth]

Tried multi-tabling 5$NL with 4 tables and got average results. I feel I'm going too fast, playing too loose. When you guys play, do you always observe carefully hands your not in?

[Keith]

1.Your an Idiot.
2.Go and read the bankroll management posts in the digest. They are what will stop you turning your 50$ into 0$. You have to play within your roll.
3.WHen you have read those posts come back and explain what stake tables you are going to be playing and at what bankroll you will move up to the next stake level.
4. Youve just started playing cash tables , why move up to playing 4 tables. play one or two tables and watch everything that is going on . Learn the moves that people are making. When people min raise you from early position what does it mean. When people limp ,3bet pre flop what does it mean? Learn how to beat the level then add tables.
5. take advantage of poker tracker 3 and holdem manager trials. Earn the money to buy it.

[daeyeth]

1. I'm inexperienced, I'm learning, I'm going to make mistakes trying things I've only heard about. We're strangers, you can be civil dude
   
2. I misunderstood it and thought I had 50 buy-ins for 5$ haha
   
3. $2NL, $5NL at 100, right, got it
   
4. I dunno, I thought having to react fast would somehow make me more focused and awaken my genius poker prowess lurking within me.
   
   Ahh I'm terrible at pop quizes. Min raise from early...K J, A 10? Limp = low cards, connectors, small pocket pair? 3 bet pre-flop = KK or AA? If I get at least a B on my report card, I get a raise in my allowance
   
5. My laptop doesn't have enough ram to run those at the same time as PokerStars. Being completely serious

[daven]

1 - I'm inexperienced, I'm learning, I'm going to make mistakes trying things I've only heard about. We're strangers, you can be civil dude

note his "your" an idiot, kinda like the classic "your a moran" - it's probably him being friendly

I misunderstood it and thought I had 50 buy-ins for 5$ haha
$2NL, $5NL at 100, right, got it

good

I dunno, I thought having to react fast would somehow make me more focused and awaken my genius poker prowess lurking within me.

just buy the poker prowess pill, it's easier. You can buy them with fpps from stars

I'm a gamer................My laptop doesn't have enough ram to run those at the same time as PokerStars. Being completely serious

if you switch off all other apps then this is unlikely - guess it could be correct though? I know i ran a poker client + PT on an old toshiba that i bought secondhand in 2005, but maybe it had heaps of ram or something. I think there is probably a way for you to get around this? someone like keith could probably tell you in a second

[dranger7070]

Yea, you're going to get a lot of "uncivil" remarks around FTR lol. Especially when you are just starting out. Don't feel to bad though, everyone has to have their chops busted from time to time. Trust me, it'll help you out in the long run. Would you rather be coddled and learn nothing/very little, or have people be brutally honest and have your eyes opened to real learning?

Pretty much everything daven said lol. GL with your OP dude!

[tugger]

Raising big with QQ+ pre flop at 1/2nl is essential. I just shove with aces now, it's the only way to guarantee you won't get four callers, and nobody is letting go of KK, and very few people let go of AK, QQ JJ and AQ, though I will to a massive all in, because it's nearly always aces or kings. It's only if someone has less than a dollar I consider it more likely they could be gambling with TT, KQ, 44 etc, and I open up my calling range. Shoving with aces might only win you the blinds more often then not, but you'll have them cracked much less often, and over time you'll make a lot of money thanks to people who can't let go of AK, QQ, KK pre flop. Of course, they will get beat by these hands from time to time, don't get angry, thank the person for calling in the chat bar. Proper bankroll management will take care of that for you unless you're the world's unlickiest person.

I'll go to 12c or more with QQ, JJ, AKs. Standard raise with average-good hands, such as AJs, KQs, TT etc would be to 8c (4xbb) + 2c (1xbb) for each limper.

As for being worried about people making their draws, just bet like 80-90% of the pot. If they call, that's good for you, long term you win money from this call. The chances of someone making their flush on the turn is around one in six, so if they're paying a pot sized bet to see the turn, they are losing money long term, unless they get paid off huge if and when they hit. So don't pay them off too much, and bet enough so if they call you're making money. It's important to see poker as a long term game, you're playing more than just one hand. He might make his flush when he pays a pot size bet, but he isn't making it every time. Over 100 similar hands, he's missing more often than he hits, which is exactly why you win more than you lose if you bet correctly.

Don't be afraid of folding to a bluff. It happens, we all get mugged off, and for sure it's annoying when you fold top pair and he shows two rags. But if you call every time he *might* be bluffing, you're gonna lose money. Call river bets that offer ridiculous odds if you have a hand, like 40c into a $2 pot with 2nd pair, because you only need to catch a bluff one in five times to break even, compared to folding. But if he bets twice the pot on the river to a thrid spade, and you have top pair, it's a fold, because you need to catch two bluffs in three hands, and that's not happening. Top pair is losing to this bet more often than one in three times.

And finally, don't let those who are rude to you get to you. There's a lot of people on this site that think being rude is constructive to a discussion. That's the internet for you, everyone has bigger bollocks than they do in real life. Sometimes they might have something useful to say, so don't disregard them completely, arseholes can make good poker players too.

Good luck at the tables! I might see you around, I play at stars 1/2nl.

[Keith]

1. I'm inexperienced, I'm learning, I'm going to make mistakes trying things I've only heard about. We're strangers, you can be civil dude

1. look at the first post of your op, look at your goals. read the entire beginners digest. 5% complete. A wise man given all that free information would be reading all of that crucial information before moving onto the tables and trying to apply it.
   An idiot will think that they know enough allready and jump on the tables and start playing.
   which did you do?.
   

2. I misunderstood it and thought I had 50 buy-ins for 5$ haha

[flomo]

GOAL: Turn 50$ into 1000$ for a computer

buy the comp
learn poker and try not to cash out

[Micro2Macro]

Raising big with QQ+ pre flop at 1/2nl is essential. I just shove with aces now, it's the only way to guarantee you won't get four callers, and nobody is letting go of KK, and very few people let go of AK, QQ JJ and AQ, though I will to a massive all in, because it's nearly always aces or kings. It's only if someone has less than a dollar I consider it more likely they could be gambling with TT, KQ, 44 etc, and I open up my calling range. Shoving with aces might only win you the blinds more often then not, but you'll have them cracked much less often, and over time you'll make a lot of money thanks to people who can't let go of AK, QQ, KK pre flop. Of course, they will get beat by these hands from time to time, don't get angry, thank the person for calling in the chat bar. Proper bankroll management will take care of that for you unless you're the world's unlickiest person.

I'll go to 12c or more with QQ, JJ, AKs. Standard raise with average-good hands, such as AJs, KQs, TT etc would be to 8c (4xbb) + 2c (1xbb) for each limper.

As for being worried about people making their draws, just bet like 80-90% of the pot. If they call, that's good for you, long term you win money from this call. The chances of someone making their flush on the turn is around one in six, so if they're paying a pot sized bet to see the turn, they are losing money long term, unless they get paid off huge if and when they hit. So don't pay them off too much, and bet enough so if they call you're making money. It's important to see poker as a long term game, you're playing more than just one hand. He might make his flush when he pays a pot size bet, but he isn't making it every time. Over 100 similar hands, he's missing more often than he hits, which is exactly why you win more than you lose if you bet correctly.

Don't be afraid of folding to a bluff. It happens, we all get mugged off, and for sure it's annoying when you fold top pair and he shows two rags. But if you call every time he *might* be bluffing, you're gonna lose money. Call river bets that offer ridiculous odds if you have a hand, like 40c into a $2 pot with 2nd pair, because you only need to catch a bluff one in five times to break even, compared to folding. But if he bets twice the pot on the river to a thrid spade, and you have top pair, it's a fold, because you need to catch two bluffs in three hands, and that's not happening. Top pair is losing to this bet more often than one in three times.

And finally, don't let those who are rude to you get to you. There's a lot of people on this site that think being rude is constructive to a discussion. That's the internet for you, everyone has bigger bollocks than they do in real life. Sometimes they might have something useful to say, so don't disregard them completely, arseholes can make good poker players too.

Good luck at the tables! I might see you around, I play at stars 1/2nl.

I only read the first paragraph of this so I can't be sure about the rest but just disregard everything said here.

[daeyeth]

I only read the first paragraph of this so I can't be sure about the rest but just disregard everything said here.

How come? I'm a beginner here, could you elaborate on that? Is it that I shouldn't just shove with Aces?

[Stacks]

I only read the first paragraph of this so I can't be sure about the rest but just disregard everything said here.

How come? I'm a beginner here, could you elaborate on that? Is it that I shouldn't just shove with Aces?

First off, I like you already daeyeth. I don't know what it is, but when someone knows how to organize a post, such as you did with your OP, I just instantly like them. Easy to read, coherent, and fucking bolded words... YES!

Anyways, the first paragraph Tugger presented was pretty bad. Just 'shoving' with your monster hands preflop, such as AA/KK is a less than ideal way to earn maximum value. Obviously most players at 2nl aren't going to fold JJ+, AQ, AK to a raise preflop. And it's correct that they probably won't even fold them if you shove allin with AA/KK/etc. However, the likelihood of them having those hands is somewhat minuscule. And either way, your job is to extract value from the widest range possible. If you shove with AA, and he calls with QQ+, AQ-AK, then that's good. However, if you raise with AA, and he calls with 22+, A5s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs+, 87s, etc, etc, and he is still very likely to stack off with his overpairs, Top pairs, etc postflop, then it's pretty apparent this is a far greater strategy than open shoving AA, as you are extracting money from a much larger range.

It makes no sense to take the best hand preflop, and just shove, when the likelihood of your villain's having a hand they will call with in small. Especially when those hands aren't very vulnerable in the first place.

Also regarding Tugger's statement about not letting people be rude to you.. I've found on this site the overwhelming majority of people give respect when given respect. Obviously, you don't have to be a kiss ass, but just understand that you are the inexperienced player. And that there are loads of individuals on this site that have played more hands than you, read/studied more, and made more money. Because of this, their words at least need to be somewhat heeded if you intend to improve. Not brushed aside when they take their time to give you advice (as some people do).

[dranger7070]

God dammit Stax, I love your sig. Makes me want an asian.

[daven]

I'll go to 12c or more with QQ, JJ, AKs. Standard raise with average-good hands, such as AJs, KQs, TT etc would be to 8c (4xbb) + 2c (1xbb) for each limper.

As for being worried about people making their draws, just bet like 80-90% of the pot. If they call, that's good for you, long term you win money from this call. The chances of someone making their flush on the turn is around one in six, so if they're paying a pot sized bet to see the turn, they are losing money long term, unless they get paid off huge if and when they hit. So don't pay them off too much, and bet enough so if they call you're making money. It's important to see poker as a long term game, you're playing more than just one hand. He might make his flush when he pays a pot size bet, but he isn't making it every time. Over 100 similar hands, he's missing more often than he hits, which is exactly why you win more than you lose if you bet correctly.

Don't be afraid of folding to a bluff. It happens, we all get mugged off, and for sure it's annoying when you fold top pair and he shows two rags. But if you call every time he *might* be bluffing, you're gonna lose money. Call river bets that offer ridiculous odds if you have a hand, like 40c into a $2 pot with 2nd pair, because you only need to catch a bluff one in five times to break even, compared to folding. But if he bets twice the pot on the river to a thrid spade, and you have top pair, it's a fold, because you need to catch two bluffs in three hands, and that's not happening. Top pair is losing to this bet more often than one in three times.
.

this part of the advice from Tugger is fine.

i understand where he is coming from with his advice to open shove monsters pre, but he is wrong - already addressed above

As for polite vs not, whatever. Crocodiles are top of the food chain, and it's a combo of sharp teeth and thick skin. Generally people aren't being arseholes, if someone says that something is stupid then try to figure out the reason. If you don't reach the answer yourself then ask why rather than being offended. You'll often get a good answer, as per keith's explanation above. Answer his question too, it's worth it

Once you've moved up though and hit a tough time what should you be thinking about.

[daeyeth]

lol nah I'm good man, I'm not looking for a drill instructor. More of a cotton candy and flowers guy

Anywho, I was enjoying the Poker Academy until I found out I gotta play on FTP to get full access to all the lessons, ugh. Even though the rakeback won't make any difference to a nub like me, I'm too used to PokerStars at this point.

[Keith]

You're much more likely to remember and apply concepts if you work them out yourself than if someone tells it to you. Like the question I asked that Daven put back up and you haven't answered it. These are pretty basic but essential to know concepts.

[tugger]

I only read the first paragraph of this so I can't be sure about the rest but just disregard everything said here.

How come? I'm a beginner here, could you elaborate on that? Is it that I shouldn't just shove with Aces?

He's just being a dick. I'm unpopular and he's jumping on the bandwagon, that's all. It's kinda nice to know I have that effect after just a month or two.

Yeah, it's likely that my advice regarding aces is bad, but it makes bad beats easier to take, because they only happen one in five times (ish), and it means you never have to fold them! I think I just lost faith in trying to win money with them by means of value after I had to fold them three times in an hour. By shoving I'm just avoiding messy situations against donks who could have bloody K2, which of course is fine to my all in pre flop! But shoving isn't the only way to make money with aces, especially since top pair is value city in 2nl.

Best advice I can give you really is respect stacks' opinion the most, and take on board what everyone says. And if they're being a dick, tell them. Haha.

[jyms]

The tugger advice is wrong, he admits it.

I split the rest of the bitchfest here
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...og-t89864.html

Courtiebee can decide if that needs to be locked.

[daeyeth]

You're much more likely to remember and apply concepts if you work them out yourself than if someone tells it to you.

Yeah. To make sure I digest what I'm reading, I've got a routine going. First I read an article before I start playing and I keep the article open while playing. I'm not gonna remember everything I read but I can at least recall what the article was about and recognize the points when I face them in real time. Even I don't remember what to do, after the hand I'll go back to the article and see if what I did was right.

[daeyeth]

Just had a good session! I badly lost one hand on a bluff and doubled up in another.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($4.97)
daeyeth (MP2) ($2.72)
CO ($2.42)
Button ($5.20)
SB ($5.04)
BB ($6.91)
UTG ($1.82)
UTG+1 ($0.80)

Preflop: daeyeth is MP2 with A, Q
UTG bets $0.04, 2 folds, daeyeth calls $0.04, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.11) 9, 7, 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.06, daeyeth calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.23) 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.06, daeyeth raises to $0.14, UTG calls $0.08

River: ($0.51) K (2 players)
UTG checks, daeyeth bets $0.30, UTG calls $0.30

Total pot: $1.11 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
UTG had Q, Q (flush, King high).
daeyeth had A, Q (high card, Ace).
Outcome: UTG won $1.06


When he bet that flop, I think unconsciously, without realizing it, I had decided I want to win this hand regardless of what he or I have. I'm pretty smart like that. I wasn't sure about playing AQo from MP2 but if I was going to play it, I likely should of raised to gauge the strength of my opponent's hand right? And now that I think about it, I don't even think I ever thought about what my opponent had, I just thought how to win the hand ha ha ha (deeply disturbed inside).

To win the hand, I was trying to represent the flush draw by reraising him on the turn. If he didn't have a spade in his hand, do you think I could of won with that value bet?

After losing that, I didn't tilt like I usually do. Today I was on a good, even keel. Yesterday when I was lost I was like, damnit, I'm gonna play a lot of hands and be aggressive and win my money back! But this time, losing brought me into focus. I remained conservative and waited for position or hands.

Here's the hand I doubled up on...but I don't know if I made the right call.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($4.95)
daeyeth (SB) ($2.26)
BB ($2.42)
UTG ($5.18)
MP1 ($4.55)
MP2 ($7.61)
CO ($3)

Preflop: daeyeth is SB with K, K
2 folds, MP2 bets $0.06, 2 folds, daeyeth raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.38) 9, Q, 6 (3 players)
daeyeth checks, BB bets $0.20, MP2 raises to $0.50, daeyeth raises to $0.80, BB raises to $2.30 (All-In), 1 fold, daeyeth calls $1.34 (All-In)

Turn: ($5.16) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.16) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.16 | Rake: $0.25

Results:
daeyeth had K, K (one pair, Kings).
BB had Q, A (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: daeyeth won $4.91


I didn't have any read on the opponents from previous hands and, yet again, ugh, I completely forget to consider what position they were calling/raising/betting at preflop. I mean, shouldn't I have put the BB on two pair or a set? That's what I was thinking while was I calling the all-in lol. I was thinking: "He could have a set. He could have two pair. He might have me beat....man, F$%^ THAT, I got Kings mother f#$%er!! I'll pay just so I can see your set you #@$%ing dick."

Clearly the thoughts of a poker prodigy on his game. I know I need to change that mindset but how bad or good was my call?

[Keith]

Just had a good session! I badly lost one hand on a bluff and doubled up in another.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($4.97)
daeyeth (MP2) ($2.72)
CO ($2.42)
Button ($5.20)
SB ($5.04)
BB ($6.91)
UTG ($1.82)
UTG+1 ($0.80)

Preflop: daeyeth is MP2 with A, Q
UTG bets $0.04, 2 folds, daeyeth calls $0.04, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.11) 9, 7, 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.06, daeyeth calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.23) 6 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.06, daeyeth raises to $0.14, UTG calls $0.08

River: ($0.51) K (2 players)
UTG checks, daeyeth bets $0.30, UTG calls $0.30

Total pot: $1.11 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
UTG had Q, Q (flush, King high).
daeyeth had A, Q (high card, Ace).
Outcome: UTG won $1.06


When he bet that flop, I think unconsciously, without realizing it, I had decided I want to win this hand regardless of what he or I have. I'm pretty smart like that. I wasn't sure about playing AQo from MP2 but if I was going to play it, I likely should of raised to gauge the strength of my opponent's hand right? And now that I think about it, I don't even think I ever thought about what my opponent had, I just thought how to win the hand ha ha ha (deeply disturbed inside).

you don't have to win every hand. Sometimees your pretty cards will cost you big.Like this one.

To win the hand, I was trying to represent the flush draw by reraising him on the turn. If he didn't have a spade in his hand, do you think I could of won with that value bet?

read the articles on position. What does an UTG raiser mean? You don't need to bluff at 2NL , By the turnwhat are you hoping for?If you're tryingto get him to fold the bet isn't big enough.and if he calls where is that going to leave you?. 8x has you crushed Aand queen of spades are probably no use to you.Let it go and find a better spot.
If you are going to stab at the river 10cents is probably enough , if he doesnt have a spade he has to fold and if he does you're beaten and lose less or fold to a raise.

After losing that, I didn't tilt like I usually do. Today I was on a good, even keel. Yesterday when I was lost I was like, damnit, I'm gonna play a lot of hands and be aggressive and win my money back! But this time, losing brought me into focus. I remained conservative and waited for position or hands.

good , now you're learning.

Here's the hand I doubled up on...but I don't know if I made the right call.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($4.95)
daeyeth (SB) ($2.26)
BB ($2.42)
UTG ($5.18)
MP1 ($4.55)
MP2 ($7.61)
CO ($3)

Preflop: daeyeth is SB with K, K
2 folds, MP2 bets $0.06, 2 folds, daeyeth raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.38) 9, Q, 6 (3 players)
daeyeth checks, BB bets $0.20, MP2 raises to $0.50, daeyeth raises to $0.80, BB raises to $2.30 (All-In), 1 fold, daeyeth calls $1.34 (All-In)

Turn: ($5.16) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.16) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.16 | Rake: $0.25

Results:
daeyeth had K, K (one pair, Kings).
BB had Q, A (one pair, Queens).
Outcome: daeyeth won $4.91


I didn't have any read on the opponents from previous hands and, yet again, ugh, I completely forget to consider what position they were calling/raising/betting at preflop. I mean, shouldn't I have put the BB on two pair or a set? That's what I was thinking while was I calling the all-in lol. I was thinking: "He could have a set. He could have two pair. He might have me beat....man, F$%^ THAT, I got Kings mother f#$%er!! I'll pay just so I can see your set you #@$%ing dick."

Clearly the thoughts of a poker prodigy on his game. I know I need to change that mindset but how bad or good was my call?

bet larger Pre , you have a monster but you min raised. Don't just hit the raise button increase the bet size then hit raise.As it is you are making it cheap for Ax hands to call and see the flopand ideally you want to get all your money in against one guy.You're out of position so I'd probably make it 20-24 to go. Let someone with a decent hand call that is likely to go all the way , rather than some cheapsters calling with anything and flopping 2 pair.
If you're going to check raise you've got to make it larger to make it a mistake for the flush draws to call you.Theres a chance that either BB or MP2 has a set but I'd probably just shove. As played it looks horrible facing the reraise all in.has he got the set ? has he got nut flush draw, has he got Qx of clubs or even AcA.Ih you had a HUD and could see his stats and hes a nit , I fold if hes a 80/60 i call otherwise its just a shitty spot to be in.

[daeyeth]

read the articles on position. What does an UTG raiser mean?

Don't you mean: "what did I tell you before? if you had read the articles on position you'd know that it's the most important thing in poker and you should never forget about it"

good , now you're learning.

Someone told me you hunt down noobs for the opportunity to say that

bet larger Pre , you have a monster but you min raised. Don't just hit the raise button increase the bet size then hit raise.As it is you are making it cheap for Ax hands to call and see the flopand ideally you want to get all your money in against one guy.You're out of position so I'd probably make it 20-24 to go.

Ah I see. What about if you're playing on tight tables? Still same raise anyways? I'm always afraid of them folding or seeing I have KK/AA, but is it better to not worry about that?

Ih you had a HUD and could see his stats and hes a nit , I fold if hes a 80/60

How do I see his stats?

[Keith]

read the articles on position. What does an UTG raiser mean?

Don't you mean: "what did I tell you before? if you had read the articles on position you'd know that it's the most important thing in poker and you should never forget about it"

In this case yes and no. Because of the importance of position you should only be raising your very best hands in early position. The question is whether this player is trying to play well or is he an "idiot". This is where poker tracking software can help you without it you just have to observe the other players. If you know he's playing very few hands then the chances are hes got a high pocket pair or AK raising under the gun. if hes playing lots of hands i.e he limps in or raises a lot then the chances are he has a wide range of cards and he could be raising any Ace or any two broadway cards.

good , now you're learning.

Someone told me you hunt down noobs for the opportunity to say that

Or maybe it helps to be told when you're doing it right as well as when its wrong

bet larger Pre , you have a monster but you min raised. Don't just hit the raise button increase the bet size then hit raise.As it is you are making it cheap for Ax hands to call and see the flopand ideally you want to get all your money in against one guy.You're out of position so I'd probably make it 20-24 to go.

Ah I see. What about if you're playing on tight tables? Still same raise anyways? I'm always afraid of them folding or seeing I have KK/AA, but is it better to not worry about that?

If they haven't got a hand they aren't going to get there money in anyway. Don't give them the chance to draw to a monster that crushes your hand with crap cards pre and on the flop.You make money when they keep making mistakes. They make money when you make the mistake and lettingthem draw out cheap is a mistake.

If you had a HUD and could see his stats and hes a nit , I fold if hes a 80/60

How do I see his stats?

do you have any poker tracking software?. Also mac or PC ? On PC you can start off with Poker tracker 3 and take advantage of their 2 month free trial. Then try out Holdem manager with there two week free trial. By the time thats up you should have made enough to be able to buy Holdem manager. If you have a mac its poker copilot , but I don't know if theres any free trials.
Make sure you have the poker client set to save all your hands for at least 3 months. Once you get a tracker it will move the hand historys anyway. Once you have the poker tracker it will come with a HUD and then you just set that up and as you play it will keep a track of all your opponents stats.

[daeyeth]

Got it! Installed PT3...my god, this is incredible. It's gonna take me a while to fully grasp the statistics I'm looking at, but thankfully I've already found a couple sweet guides on PT3 stats

[Keith]

Got it! Installed PT3...my god, this is incredible. It's gonna take me a while to fully grasp the statistics I'm looking at, but thankfully I've already found a couple sweet guides on PT3 stats

Now you've got PT3 , go and find the KK hand , run it in the hand replayer and see what the opponent stats are like.

[daeyeth]

Had another good session but I don't feel satisfied with my play. I keep forgetting to consider my opponent's hand and pot/implied odds. Trying very hard to hammer this into myself and make it a habit of constantly thinking about those factors.

I'm especially find it difficult to read solid players who call my continuation bets. Here's one such case. I have played heads-up with this player on 3 or 4 hands and I know he's a solid player. He beat me once and I beat him once, and his stats were 32 VP$IP / 11 PFR / 34 AFq. Mine is 22 / 7 / 63. What's a good AFq to have? Haven't been able to find good guides on that.

Anyways, here's the hand

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($5.05)
Button ($3.50)
SB ($1.50)
BB ($1.01)
UTG ($1.07)
UTG+1 ($0.91)
daeyeth (MP1) ($4.64)
MP2 ($1.71)
MP3 ($2.29)

Preflop: daeyeth is MP1 with Q, Q
2 folds, daeyeth bets $0.08, MP2 calls $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.27) A, 3, 5 (3 players)
daeyeth bets $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.47) 4 (2 players)
daeyeth bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30

River: ($1.07) 5 (2 players)
daeyeth checks, CO checks

Total pot: $1.07 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
daeyeth had Q, Q (two pair, Queens and fives).
CO had J, A (two pair, Aces and fives).
Outcome: CO won $1.02


I think my flop raise was too small to properly gauge his hand, though I really can't tell because I've been constantly raising his BB from the button and I know he wants to play with me to get back at me from a previous hand. If I had raised to 1/2 or 3/4 pot and he called, what do I do at the turn? If I check, won't a solid player sense my weakness and bet whether he has something or not?

[Keith]

Had another good session but I don't feel satisfied with my play. I keep forgetting to consider my opponent's hand and pot/implied odds. Trying very hard to hammer this into myself and make it a habit of constantly thinking about those factors.

I'm especially find it difficult to read solid players who call my continuation bets. Here's one such case. I have played heads-up with this player on 3 or 4 hands and I know he's a solid player. He beat me once and I beat him once, and his stats were 32 VP$IP / 11 PFR / 34 AFq. Mine is 22 / 7 / 63. What's a good AFq to have? Haven't been able to find good guides on that.

What makes you think he is a solid player? He playing over a third of the hands he is dealt by the time you add in the blinds that he can check and only raising 11% of the hands hes dealt. That means hes limping in with a lot of crap and seeing if he hits , if he does then he continues , if not he's probably folding.
By the time it gets to heads up , he appears solid because he's folded anything that hasn't hit the flop .The same can be said about your stats although they aren't as bad.Far to big a gap between your vpip and pfr.

Anyways, here's the hand

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($5.05)
Button ($3.50)
SB ($1.50)
BB ($1.01)
UTG ($1.07)
UTG+1 ($0.91)
daeyeth (MP1) ($4.64)
MP2 ($1.71)
MP3 ($2.29)

Preflop: daeyeth is MP1 with Q, Q
2 folds, daeyeth bets $0.08, MP2 calls $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.27) A, 3, 5 (3 players)
daeyeth bets $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.10

Why c-bet so small, I'd make that .25 so that only people with Ax,33,55 or clubs will really carry on. Nobody folds an A at 2NL so once he calls you have to be wary that he might well have an A.

Turn: ($0.47) 4 (2 players)
daeyeth bets $0.30, CO calls $0.30

WHat are you trying to say with this bet ? that you have a bigger ace than him , that you have clubs that you've got a 2?. Why are you raising a 2 in MP pre? so thats discounted. Small flop cbet he may think you were afraid of the A on the flop ,so probably no Ace.clubs would have cbet the flop larger too.Which leaves you with probably a pocket pair.
I think you should check here and if he bets fold theres too may cards that can hurt you even if you arent behind and very few that are going to help you and even then you may still be behind

River: ($1.07) 5 (2 players)
daeyeth checks, CO checks

Total pot: $1.07 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
daeyeth had Q, Q (two pair, Queens and fives).
CO had J, A (two pair, Aces and fives).
Outcome: CO won $1.02


I think my flop raise was too small to properly gauge his hand, though I really can't tell because I've been constantly raising his BB from the button and I know he wants to play with me to get back at me from a previous hand.

Wheres the consistancy in your logic. first you say hes a solid player , now hes playing emotionally to get revenge for a loss?

If I had raised to 1/2 or 3/4 pot and he called, what do I do at the turn? If I check, won't a solid player sense my weakness and bet whether he has something or not?

quite possibly he would. But at that turn card it turns scary for him as well as you. He may well check it down as well.Not losing money is the same as winning money as its still there at the end of your session.You cbet the flop and he's called so its time so stop putting money in the pot unless he bets something stupid like .02.

[daeyeth]

What makes you think he is a solid player?

Well, he's "solid" from my perspective lol. It's relative to my skill level I see now

The same can be said about your stats although they aren't as bad.Far to big a gap between your vpip and pfr.

What would be a good gap between vpip and pfr? How about my AFq?

Why c-bet so small, I'd make that .25 so that only people with Ax,33,55 or clubs will really carry on. Nobody folds an A at 2NL so once he calls you have to be wary that he might well have an A.

I'm scared of committing too much to the pot because I'm a weak player

WHat are you trying to say with this bet ? that you have a bigger ace than him , that you have clubs that you've got a 2?. Why are you raising a 2 in MP pre? so thats discounted. Small flop cbet he may think you were afraid of the A on the flop ,so probably no Ace.clubs would have cbet the flop larger too.Which leaves you with probably a pocket pair.

I think you should check here and if he bets fold theres too may cards that can hurt you even if you arent behind and very few that are going to help you and even then you may still be behind

Ah I see. Ok

Wheres the consistancy in your logic. first you say hes a solid player , now hes playing emotionally to get revenge for a loss?

ROFL, I just realized that's exactly the type of thing I would do, oh man. So I guess I'm just projecting my nubness onto him or we're both "solidly" nub

quite possibly he would. But at that turn card it turns scary for him as well as you. He may well check it down as well.Not losing money is the same as winning money as its still there at the end of your session.You cbet the flop and he's called so its time so stop putting money in the pot unless he bets something stupid like .02.

I see, thanks

[daeyeth]

IRC is so 1995! Ah ok, what server is FTR on?

[linaker]

An AFq of 63 is good to have as it means you are betting and raising more than you are calling and checking, which is the right idea. But I would not worry too much about that stat. It can be useful for identifying passive players, so if someone has an AFq of 10 and suddenly starts going mad with the bets and raises, they probably have a hand. But its not that brilliant a guide to how aggressive a player is. Someone with a VPIP/PFR of 8/7 might have a high AFq, but in reality be pretty weak tight, since they should be betting AA/KK/QQ etc, but maybe they fold to resisitance.

It's best to concentrate on taking the right action and sizing your bets well.

[daeyeth]

I see, thanks for clearing that up. I understand that the stats don't tell you everything, but I think it's a good overall guideline, especially for new players such as moi

[daeyeth]

Another good session and this time, I feel satisfied with my play for once. It's the first time I've been able to follow what I've read in a guide and for everything to go exactly the way the guide said it would.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($0.96)
daeyeth (SB) ($3.23)
BB ($2.29)
UTG ($0.84)
UTG+1 ($0.86)
MP1 ($4.16)
MP2 ($1)
MP3 ($5.50)
CO ($4.93)

Preflop: daeyeth is SB with Q, K
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, daeyeth calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.16) 10, Q, Q (8 players)
daeyeth checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.06, MP1 calls $0.06, MP3 calls $0.06, 2 folds, daeyeth raises to $0.26, 2 folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.84 (All-In), 2 folds, daeyeth calls $0.58

Turn: ($1.96) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($1.96) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $1.96 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
daeyeth had Q, K (full house, Queens over Kings).
UTG+1 had A, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
Outcome: daeyeth won $1.91


Everything I did I was following Renton's guides and it played out exactly like he said it would, it was the perfect scenario. Renton's guides have been a godsend and I've made a little starting hand cheat sheet for myself based of his guides. They've vastly help improve my preflop game.

Besides that hand, 90% of my success has come from cbets following my preflop raise. Sometimes I feel like I'm having too much success though and so I try not to be too obvious and mix it up some times.

I've yet to have success in achieving the ideal stats of 15/7, I'm usually 20/10, though I'm pretty sure that it has to do with -- at least in part -- with the fact that I haven't played that many hands. I usually play in short bursts, like around 80~ hands per session.

I am loving the poker tracker, it has made folding hands, ones that previously would of been tough to, soooooo much easier because it's like a little mini-game to me to get my stats to 15/7

[daven]

kq nh

following Renton's guides

good!

Besides that hand, 90% of my success has come from cbets following my preflop raise. Sometimes I feel like I'm having too much success though and so I try not to be too obvious and mix it up some times.

nh.

I've yet to have success in achieving the ideal stats of 15/7,

these are not ideal. Best option is to play/fold hands that you would be able to explain the "why?" of to a jury of poker players, this will likely bring you somewhere near 16-10 at micros? dunno, 14-12 is nice, etc. 7%pfr is too passive in all no limit games.

[daeyeth]

Oh, okay. I had gotten those stats from here. I think I would be closer to 16/10 if I didn't always play my blinds. I mean, it's so cheap I can't help it

[daeyeth]

Father, I have a confession to make. Please forgive me for I have sinned again. In late evening of Sunday, I violated my bankroll management for the second time and multitabled. But Father, it was only $2NL this time!

"You play with the Devil's fruits my son. You must know your place and understand your limits. The Lord will reward your patience."

But I couldn't help it! I mean, I'm pretty much nut camping to begin with and playing by the book tight poker, so I only get a playable hand like 1 in every 15-20 hands. It should be okay if I play really tight... r-right?

Overall, I did pretty decent today. In the morning, I played my first SnGs ($1), though they were just DoNs. Being my first time, I was really surprised by the play and quickly realized that this was waaaay different from cash games. So I lost one, played another and survived to the money. They're strangely fun, probably because they're fast paced with a clear winner, but I don't think I'm gonna be playing anymore for now. I'm still just learning $2NL, can't handle learning a new game.

Later on, I was playing in a normal full ring $2NL and I was getting garbage for soooo long. I wasn't losing money or anything but damn, it was boring and I hadn't played a hand for like 20 minutes. That's what lead me back to the dark road of multitabling again, which, of course, is idiotic since I only have a week's worth of real money poker experience....but I guess no need for the self-deprecation since that's what Keith is for, so I'll just tell you the results, which was pretty alright

I was playing 3 tables and tried to play even tighter than usual to at least limit somewhat what I knew was an already risky situation. All in all, I only lost one big hand against a set when I had TPTK and I was drawing to the nut flush. Other than that, standard stuff, no significant battles, although there was one notable exception...I got my first straight flush, BOOYA.

Do ppl still say booya?

I still say booya.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($1.43)
Button ($3)
daeyeth (SB) ($2.88)
BB ($4.29)
UTG ($2.96)
UTG+1 ($6.88)
MP1 ($1.80)
MP2 ($3.07)

Preflop: daeyeth is SB with 4, 5
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, daeyeth calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.06) 10, A, 3 (3 players)
daeyeth bets $0.04, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.14) 2 (2 players)
daeyeth bets $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08

River: ($0.30) Q (2 players)
daeyeth bets $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50

Total pot: $1.30 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
daeyeth had 4, 5 (straight flush, five high).
MP1 mucked 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
Outcome: daeyeth won $1.25

The pot wasn't a big but I at least got him to call the overbet I guess. Should I have done pot-sized bets instead of 2/3?

Back to the multitabling, well, technically, it's wasn't too far above my bankroll with enough for 10BBs each (not as bad as last time where I had like 2 for each table lol)...but I'm gonna promise myself not violate my bankroll again. I'm starting to see that this grind is totally possible and I really want to do this. If I do multitable again, I'll restrict myself to two tables, which'll give me at least 15BBs

[Keith]

Father, I have a confession to make. Please forgive me for I have sinned again. In late evening of Sunday, I violated my bankroll management for the second time and multitabled. But Father, it was only $2NL this time!

"You play with the Devil's fruits my son. You must know your place and understand your limits. The Lord will reward your patience."

But I couldn't help it! I mean, I'm pretty much nut camping to begin with and playing by the book tight poker, so I only get a playable hand like 1 in every 15-20 hands. It should be okay if I play really tight... r-right?

yes and no. effectively you are playing scared poker and not being able to exploit your opponents.What happens when you have well above average hand and opponent goes all in. When you are properly rolled you can call, if you're protecting your stack do you still call?.

Overall, I did pretty decent today. In the morning, I played my first SnGs ($1), though they were just DoNs. Being my first time, I was really surprised by the play and quickly realized that this was waaaay different from cash games. So I lost one, played another and survived to the money. They're strangely fun, probably because they're fast paced with a clear winner, but I don't think I'm gonna be playing anymore for now. I'm still just learning $2NL, can't handle learning a new game.

Far better to learn one game at a time , wh8ile some of the postflop play will be similar , pre flop is different

Later on, I was playing in a normal full ring $2NL and I was getting garbage for soooo long. I wasn't losing money or anything but damn, it was boring and I hadn't played a hand for like 20 minutes. That's what lead me back to the dark road of multitabling again, which, of course, is idiotic since I only have a week's worth of real money poker experience....but I guess no need for the self-deprecation since that's what Keith is for, so I'll just tell you the results, which was pretty alright

theres nothing wrong with multitabling so long as you are playing profitably. Once you get to that stage add more tables one at a time.Adding tables is a trade off between having time to think about the hands you are playing and learn the game versus getting experience a lot quicker.

I was playing 3 tables and tried to play even tighter than usual to at least limit somewhat what I knew was an already risky situation. All in all, I only lost one big hand against a set when I had TPTK and I was drawing to the nut flush. Other than that, standard stuff, no significant battles, although there was one notable exception...I got my first straight flush, BOOYA.

Do ppl still say booya?

I still say booya.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($1.43)
Button ($3)
daeyeth (SB) ($2.88)
BB ($4.29)
UTG ($2.96)
UTG+1 ($6.88)
MP1 ($1.80)
MP2 ($3.07)

Preflop: daeyeth is SB with 4, 5
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, daeyeth calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.06) 10, A, 3 (3 players)
daeyeth bets $0.04, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.04

might just as well have pot this

Turn: ($0.14) 2 (2 players)
daeyeth bets $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08

you now have the nuts , your main thought now should be about how to get all your money and the opponents money in the middle.If you'd potted the flop , you could have gone for a slight overbet here and made it .30 which if he'd called would leave a pot ov about 1$ .

River: ($0.30) Q (2 players)
daeyeth bets $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50

Just get them chips all in now , he would have called a shove and at 2NL you'll be surprised what they will call a shove with. This is how you get your roll moving up quick and increase your winrate. Big hand Big pot small hand small pot.

Total pot: $1.30 | Rake: $0.05

Results:
daeyeth had 4, 5 (straight flush, five high).
MP1 mucked 2, 2 (three of a kind, twos).
Outcome: daeyeth won $1.25

The pot wasn't a big but I at least got him to call the overbet I guess. Should I have done pot-sized bets instead of 2/3?

just get all your chips in the middle with the nuts. If he doesnt call you wouldnt have got them anyway.

Back to the multitabling, well, technically, it's wasn't too far above my bankroll with enough for 10BBs each (not as bad as last time where I had like 2 for each table lol)...but I'm gonna promise myself not violate my bankroll again. I'm starting to see that this grind is totally possible and I really want to do this. If I do multitable again, I'll restrict myself to two tables, which'll give me at least 15BBs

This all comes down to discipline , can you resist the temptation. Theres allways going to be temptation and its usually the way to bust your roll.I'm confused about your BBs .How big is your roll now.On that hand you had $2.88 which is 142 bb or 71 BB. If that is all of your roll theres no reason why you cant play 2 x 2NL tables and buyin for 1$ on eachand you should try and get to the stage where you have less than 10% of your roll actually in play at any one time as soon as possible. This means you will no longer be playing scared poker.

[daeyeth]

Ah my mistake, using the wrong terminology lol. I don't mean BBs, I meant buy-ins. I'd have 15 $2NL buy-ins, $30, for each table. I read that I'm supposed to have at least 20 buy-ins for a table. Or am I misunderstanding it and it's supposed to be 20 buy-ins for the level on a whole?

As for my roll, I'm at $65 right now

[Keith]

you only need 1 buy in per table lol. Its 20 or 25 or 30 buyins at the next level before you move up. Try to limit the % of you roll actually on the tables at any one time at risk though. By multitabling you are just playing 1 table lots of times , just make sure that you have the time to give each table the time that you need to think through tyour decisions. As you get more experienced you need less time to decide so can play more tables.

[daeyeth]

Tonight I learned a lot in an up and down multitabling session. Anything important I learn, I make sure to write it down in the 1st post as a note to myself. Those notes I reread every time before I start a new session. They're things that I've learned from my experiences. If anyone has anything to add to those notes, either to tell me I'm wrong or just to elaborate further on the note and add the perspective of someone with more experience, feel free.

Most of them are likely "well duh" notes but I'm beginning to make them more detailed as the greater my understanding of poker becomes, so maybe some aren't. If all of them are "well duh" notes, then that's good because it means I'm on the right track.

After this session, I've realized my two biggest holes and how I've lost a majority of the big pots; they're common ones that all noobs have I'm sure. The first is, "I'm 100% positive my top pair is the best hand, he's probably bluffing that reraise". After drowning myself in the Beginner's Digest, I've completely gotten rid of that hole.

The other is another obvious one that I think all poker players experience every once in a while and that's emotion. The big pot I lost today was entirely because of emotion. I was up against an opponent who I'd faced many times earlier and I was really annoyed with his callstation play. I went all in an open ended straight draw all because I had this mindset of "I want to beat this guy".

After that, the following happens and this has happened before, I briefly mentioned it in an earlier post. I go on tilt for about 5 minutes, and start going, "GOD DAMNIT, I'm gonna be super aggressive, out play, and beat these mother #@$ers". Then the 82 or K3 comes and asks me, "You really wanna do this with garbage bums' wipe their ass with?" and I go, "Er...on second thought...". My tilt starts fading, I'm coming back down to Earth, and my mindset goes in a different direction.

I start playing my normal TAG game but this time, I feel focused and energized. It's because I want to win. This is different from my usual mindset of "This is a marathon, yawn, take your time, just use logic, and grind". Instead, I start playing real poker and was asking myself great questions (something I've realized is absolutely essential to good playing) which lead me to good folds and good bets. Eventually I made up my losses and ended the session even.

Now that I know there's a higher level of play I'm capable of, it'll still be a dilemma on how to bring out this focus, the change in attitude from, "This is a marathon, survive until the nuts but be very careful!" to "I want to win, let's play some damn good poker". Maybe drinking coffee or energy drinks will help, I dunno. Something to keep my mind sharp. Next session I'll see what happens, if this is just in my head or what.

[daeyeth]

Rough night tonight, had some tough beats. I didn't go into tilt this time, I just had to shake my head and sigh. In the earlier post I talked about a new focus and I felt like I had it tonight, but it didn't save me because no matter how focused I am, I still lack an overwhelming amount of experience.

Overpairs destroyed me in 3 different hands to set me back 10%. I have not learned to fold TPTK yet so I'm going to make a new rule for myself and that's not allowing myself to call all ins and check fold if someone calls a big cbet.

The hand below was the best off I was in the overpair beats, but I'm guessing that wasn't saying much. I had some outs but I don't know I did the right thing, I'm in need of advice. I knew I was beat and still did it. How many outs do I need to put my money all in when I know I'm beat? Never? lol

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($1.72)
CO ($4.29)
Button ($1.35)
SB ($2.35)
BB ($4.65)
UTG ($3.55)
daeyeth (UTG+1) ($2.63)
MP1 ($0.64)
MP2 ($6.10)

Preflop: daeyeth is UTG+1 with J, A
1 fold, daeyeth bets $0.08, 3 folds, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.26) 3, 5, J (3 players)
SB checks, daeyeth bets $0.14, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, daeyeth calls $0.26

Turn: ($1.06) 5 (2 players)
daeyeth checks, CO bets $1.02, daeyeth raises to $2.15 (All-In), CO calls $1.13

River: ($5.36) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.36 | Rake: $0.25

Results:
daeyeth had J, A (two pair, Jacks and fives).
CO had Q, Q (two pair, Queens and fives).
Outcome: CO won $5.11

[jyms]

3bet the flop and get it in

[daeyeth]

Do I do that because I could possibly get him to fold if he thinks I have two pair/set? I'm unassure why it's standard to get try to get it all in with awesome draws. Aren't they still draws and your playing from behind?

Like with an open-ended straight + flush draw vs an over, isn't that still only 14 outs, a 30% chance of winning? That's less than 1 in 3 times you'll come out on top so even if you win once, you still lost the other times. I know I'm missing something that I don't understand as a beginner, so what is that?

On another note, I am completely disgusted with myself. I thought I was better, mindset wise, than all the other noobs. I thought I had true conviction. I read all the stories about tilt, what not to do, and I nodded my head, saying "Why of course!" But when you're in the moment, when you just completely stop caring, it's a whole different story...

Long story short, I'm back to 130% because I'm a #$^%ing idiot just like all the other donkeys

[daven]

Do I do that because I could possibly get him to fold if he thinks I have two pair/set? I'm unassure why it's standard to get try to get it all in with awesome draws. Aren't they still draws and your playing from behind?

Like with an open-ended straight + flush draw vs an over, isn't that still only 14 outs, a 30% chance of winning? That's less than 1 in 3 times you'll come out on top so even if you win once, you still lost the other times. I know I'm missing something that I don't understand as a beginner, so what is that?

14 outs means about 28% chance of hitting on the next card. But if you get it in on the flop you get two shots at hitting. Close enough to 14x2x2= you can see why it's never a bad thing being flop allin with such a monster draw.

in the hand you posted there are 14 outs, count them. Villain has a set here sometimes, so count the outs and do the math on that to - just cos you may find it useful. Even better, put villain on a range here - I like 33/55/JJ/AJ/KJ/QQ+ and see how you go against that range when you chuck this flop and your hand into pokerstove.

as for opening AJs from UTG+1, it's fine I guess, but don't go too much wider. Especially when you don't know how to play it when you hit a board like this one.
Well chosen hand, good questions, you're on the way.

Read entire Beginner's Digest.......................................74%

nice work

[jyms]

14 outs on the flop is 51%. Any money you get in on this flop is win. Do you have pokerstove? Here is what it can do.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

  21,780  games     0.005 secs     4,356,000  games/sec

Board: 3d 5d Jc
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	68.884%  	59.93% 	08.95% 	         13053 	     1950.00   { AdJd }
Hand 1: 	31.116%  	22.16% 	08.95% 	          4827 	     1950.00   { 55, 33, AJs, KJs, QJs, AJo, KJo }

This gives you 68% against a bunch of Jx hands, underflushes and 55, 33. Considering that when he raises the flop there is $0.80 in the pot and you have $2.41 remaining, you stand to win $3.21 if you shove it in ($0.80+$2.41) I won't get into all the math but suffice to say, even if he folds 5% of the hands he holds your winning a ton of cash. Here are some odds calculations.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/chart_pot_odds.html

I would search out the 2 and 4 rule here on FTR and also

and search out pokerstove and download

{edit'd to fix heros hand. I thought it seemed better before I ran stove, lol}

[tugger]

in the hand you posted there are 14 outs, count them.

No, there's 13. The Qd is bad, so that leaves 8 remaining diamonds, + 2 jacks, + 3 aces.

And it looks like you put AKd into stove. He has AJd. AKd would actually be stronger against QQ and JJ, while performing less well against other hands compared to AJd.

[tugger]

Sorry, the board paired at the turn. There's 14 outs on the flop, 13 after the turn.

[jyms]

Your right about the AK my mistake {edited stove results} but don't be looking at the QQ in OP's hand to figure out outs and what is bad. We are talking about the flop and that looks like this

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($1.72)
CO ($4.29)
Button ($1.35)
SB ($2.35)
BB ($4.65)
UTG ($3.55)
daeyeth (UTG+1) ($2.63)
MP1 ($0.64)
MP2 ($6.10)

Preflop: daeyeth is UTG+1 with J, A
1 fold, daeyeth bets $0.08, 3 folds, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.26) 3, 5, J (3 players)
SB checks, daeyeth bets $0.14, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, daeyeth ???

The fact that he slow played QQ here means yu gype a note. I hope OP did that. You cannot look at the showdown and decide on results, only reads , notes and previous actions.

Daeyeth, do not show the results anymore. It only hampers the input and discussion. Get pokerstove and actually post some reads when postinga hand. At least post some thoughts and ideas so that your thinking can be discussed as well.

[tugger]

don't be looking at the QQ in OP's hand to figure out outs and what is bad.

Yes, you're right, at the flop we don't know he has QQ. But when the board pairs, we should always take away one flush out for the purpose of calculating pot odds, even if you don't know which one it is, because pocket pairs usually make up a large chunk of his range. There is a high risk that one diamond out there gives him a boat, so I think it's best to err on the side of caution and take an out away from a flush draw on paired boards.

[jyms]

Again, the board pairing has nothing to do with the fact that we are talking about getting this in on the flop. That was all I was talking about. As for his range, I don't believe PP's make up a large part of his range. At these stakes and with no reads I assume more broadways and suited cards are a big part. If he is a 20/10 tighter player maybe, but we don't have that info, so to assume a range is just speculation and is only going to skew any results to prove a point.

[tugger]

Again, the board pairing has nothing to do with the fact that we are talking about getting this in on the flop. That was all I was talking about. As for his range, I don't believe PP's make up a large part of his range. At these stakes and with no reads I assume more broadways and suited cards are a big part. If he is a 20/10 tighter player maybe, but we don't have that info, so to assume a range is just speculation and is only going to skew any results to prove a point.

Yes, again, you're right. I've drifted into general situations where you're faced with a decision with a flush draw on a paired board. Here there is no pair on the flop, we have top pair nut flush draw, and we're therefore winning against the vast majority of hands he holds. Getting money in here wins much more often than it loses, but on this occasion it would lose. But we're not to know he has QQ, he has a range that we are beating at the flop as far as we're concerned.

If we call, then the board pairs, then the situation changes. I still think it's best to reduce your outs by one at the turn, it can do no harm, you're just asking yourself for better pot odds to counter the reverse implied odds.

[Sasquach991]

Enjoyable reading except for the detour. I'll def follow this one.

Don't worry about these guys calling you names. It comes with the territory. I've been called tard and idiot many many times.

Better them call you an idiot and respond than not to respond at all.

Good Luck OP.

[Keith]

I'm wondering what OP's thinking about how his game is now after a week or two of actually learning and playing cash compared with his attitude and play when he started.

[daeyeth]

Mucho gracias jyms & daven for your thoughts on that hand, much help, makes complete sense. About the hand results, so that's why ppl do that! Will make sure to do that next time and will give more context on the opponent and my thinking

Keith, I can tell you that I was highly overestimating my skills and experience. In my opening statement, I mentioned that play money was child's poker; that it was poker without bluffs and the psychological hampers that come with real money. I said that, but I didn't truly understand... that is poker.

I'm finally starting to get it... I mean really get it. For my first week of poker, I realize I was just playing from the book and not truly understanding the meaning, the fundamentals. And if you do that, then you're not following the book in the first place because the guides and books give you advice with the assumption that you're using the advice correctly. When you don't, you're no better than someone who's watched a lot of poker on TV and thinks they know how to play.

However, I feel that everything is starting to take its roots in me.

• I have a decent selection of starting hands and can now fold KQ without flinching.
• I can finally fold KK on an ugly board with someone betting strong. I used to call that all-in just so I could angrily confirm that my great preflop hand was beat. For the first time I'm able to grasp board texture
• And I can, at last, fold my small blind when I have trash. I used to complete it with anything, thinking it only costs a penny but now I think, who cares if it only costs a penny because what are the chances of me winning with this garbage in the first place?

I'm still just a beginner of course. I still can't help but limp UTG with QJs when I haven't got a hand in a while and I have a feeling that it's gonna take some more rough beats to get me to fold a two pairs and sets.

But I'm getting there

[scfc_andy15]

am enjoying this op, keep it up sure you'll do well

[tugger]

I still can't help but limp UTG with QJs when I haven't got a hand in a while

I hear you. I've really tightened up utg, but it is hard to fold hands like QJs utg when you've not seen a decent hand in three orbits. And besides, while bad position usually sucks, it doesn't always. But you still should be folding QJs oop to a raise. Limp/folding will cost you a lot over time, and it's going to be difficult to win that back with a slightly-above-average hand oop in an unraised pot the times you do see a flop for 2c. So really long term it's cheaper to just fold QJs utg. But that doesn't mean I do it every time. I know I should, but sometimes I just want to see the flop. Usually if I limp utg with a hand, I have every intention of calling a raise up to 8c, which is why it's usually reserved for hands that are not hard to play oop, such as a set with a pocket pair. That's why I'm trying to limp utg with 22-99, riase TT-AA, AQ+, and fold the rest, even AJs. I'm even thinking about mucking AQo utg, and limping with TT, JJ, but I'm not sure about this yet, I'm gonna assess my game when I get 10k hands. It's a bit transparant, but this is 2nl where once someone has top pair, they forget what happened pre flop and just try to get money in. So I'm still not folding my small pairs utg, but it's set or fold, no question. Those paying attention won't pay me off, but there's enough fish out there that will, and besides, so long as you're paying attention, then you'll be looking for tables with loose players on them. I tend to join the tables with the biggest average pot, and leave if it's full of nits that just happened to have had a couple of big hands in the last few.

[jyms]

I haven't limped UTG on purpose for 50K hands.( 50K UTG hands that is )

[daeyeth]

Thanks for the nice comments on the blog, it would be awesome if this OP helps others could help others as much as its helping me

Just had a hand where I think I played it right but actually maybe my bet sizes were wrong.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($4.98)
BB ($2.15)
UTG ($2.70)
daeyeth (UTG+1) ($2.79)
MP1 ($5.88)
MP2 ($3.13)
MP3 ($2.61)
CO ($4.77)
Button ($2.14)

Preflop: daeyeth is UTG+1 with 7, 7
UTG calls $0.02, daeyeth calls $0.02, MP1 bets $0.06, 5 folds, BB calls $0.04, UTG calls $0.04, daeyeth calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.25) 7, 9, 5 (4 players)
BB bets $0.09, 1 fold, daeyeth raises to $0.24, MP1 calls $0.24, BB calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.97) 2 (3 players)
BB checks, daeyeth bets $0.70, MP1 calls $0.70, 1 fold

River: ($2.37) 6 (2 players)
daeyeth bets $1.79 (All-In), MP1 calls $1.79

Total pot: $5.95 | Rake: $0.25

At the flop, the broken straight draw out there, I raise 3/4 the pot. When I do this, I expect to have at least one caller and I think that caller will be chasing a draw or have an overpair. MP1 calls, BB calls, turn comes a blank. The pot is really big so I bet 3/4 the pot and he calls again, BB folds.

I have only been at this table for about 10 hands, so I don't believe the stats tell me anything at this point and don't pay attention. When he calls again, at this point I think he has QQ+ because I doubt anyone would continue chasing straight draws at that point.

The river card I don't pay attention to because the turn action has convinced me he has an overpair so I go all in, knowing at that point he's already committed and I want to get all the money I can.

What do you think?

[daven]

pre-flop is meh fine. So is raising pre.
Flop you need to be raising bigger, forget about the 3x of the donk from the big blind and instead think about your raise sizing in terms of pot. Pot when it reaches you is $0.34 and you raise <1/2 pot. Think about bb's range - he's not folding two pair+ to any flop action, his play with TPTK is pretty much unaffected by your sizing, and you want to charge any draws he may have

Once MP1 cold-calls a flop donk and raise you know that he likes his hand a lot. His range is basically overpairs and better and you want to be getting stacks in against this range. I think your turn and river sizing are fine as played. If he has you beat then it's a cooler.

[daeyeth]

Okay. So with a great hand like a set I should be trying to increase the pot size quickly, betting/raising the size of the pot, regardless of donk bets. But what do you mean TPTK is unaffected by the sizing? Do you mean that he'll probably call anything on the flop, like the two pair will?

About bet sizing, I really don't get how to do it except for the above. When do I bet 1/2 or 3/4? My understanding of it right now is to do 1/2 the pot if TPGK, small top pair of like 8, or middle pair and its checked to me. And do 3/4 with TPTK and two pair. Is that correct? If I have an overpair to a board and I'm OOP, what should I be betting?

And it's good to know it's just a cooler because he rivered a straight on me with J8. It doesn't bother me, I understand that in the long run and I'll be better off than he is if he's always chasing draws like that. But what does annoy me is, knowing ppl play like that at $2NL, I don't get how you're supposed to read such lackadaisical players unless I've been at the table with them for at least 50 hands. They could have anything!

[daven]

Okay. So with a great hand like a set I should be trying to increase the pot size quickly, betting/raising the size of the pot, regardless of donk bets.

you got it

But what do you mean TPTK is unaffected by the sizing? Do you mean that he'll probably call anything on the flop, like the two pair will?

it means that if he's going to fold to a raise to $0.24, he will also fold to a bigger raise, but same applies to calling.

About bet sizing, I really don't get how to do it except for the above. When do I bet 1/2 or 3/4? My understanding of it right now is to do 1/2 the pot if TPGK, small top pair of like 8, or middle pair and its checked to me. And do 3/4 with TPTK and two pair. Is that correct? If I have an overpair to a board and I'm OOP, what should I be betting?

too many questions. I don't like varying bet-sizing by your hand strength = level 0 thinking. There was a great post on Level of thinking written by someone in the nutsinho essay comp - search it out. Also, re bet-sizing. Think about your range, opponent's range, etc. Post hands. Think about the impact of different bet sizing on pot sizes and effective stack vs pot size.Think about why we bet.

And it's good to know it's just a cooler because he rivered a straight on me with J8. It doesn't bother me, I understand that in the long run and I'll be better off than he is if he's always chasing draws like that.

it's a cooler as played, but he had a double gutshot so he actually had implied odds to play it the way he did. If you'd sized the flop properly then the turn would have been a shove - ponder on why.

But what does annoy me is, knowing ppl play like that at $2NL, I don't get how you're supposed to read such lackadaisical players unless I've been at the table with them for at least 50 hands. They could have anything!

value bet. Big. Punish them. Play in position as much as possible so you get more information from which to form reads within a hand. Etc.

[daeyeth]

thx. it didn't really help me understand how much to bet but definitely helps me grasp purpose of my play and what I should be thinking about. I searched around for a bet guide and found a great one that was really educational: Determining How Much to Bet

Level 0: What do I have?
Level 1: What does my opponent have?
Level 2: What does my opponent think I have?
Level 3: What does my opponent think that I think they have?
Level 4: What does my opponent think that I think they think I have?

More stuff to add to my ever growing cheat sheet

[daeyeth]

Found another article on betting that summed it up greatly for me, thought it was very helpful.

I've moved up to $5NL with 15 buy ins. It's waaaay more fun than $2NL. Only playing two tables and watching them carefully. Did good for the entirety of the session, with the levels of thinking drastically helping me on how to play a hand. Also defended my blinds for the first time. I always used to give away that penny or two in 2NL.

At the end of the session, on one table, I got an all-in with a set against two pair, which was great. At the same time, literally, I flopped an ace high flush and got an all in against a set of kings, which was even more awesome. The board paired on the turn. Not so awesome.

Oh well

[Keith]

I've moved up to $5NL with 15 buy ins. It's waaaay more fun than $2NL.

Bankroll management is there for a reason , you either stick to it or you don't , but if you don't stick to targets for moving up and back down again now ,how are you going to in the future?.

[Outlaw]

Found another article on betting that summed it up greatly for me, thought it was very helpful.

I've moved up to $5NL with 15 buy ins. It's waaaay more fun than $2NL. Only playing two tables and watching them carefully. Did good for the entirety of the session, with the levels of thinking drastically helping me on how to play a hand. Also defended my blinds for the first time. I always used to give away that penny or two in 2NL.

At the end of the session, on one table, I got an all-in with a set against two pair, which was great. At the same time, literally, I flopped an ace high flush and got an all in against a set of kings, which was even more awesome. The board paired on the turn. Not so awesome.

Oh well

If you don't learn discipline now, you never will.

My advice is to set restrictions on your BR management and stick to them through hell or high water. I grinded my way from $10 to $150 through 2NL in my latest op and although it wasn't exactly shits and giggles, I felt more proud of myself once my BR tipped the $150 mark.

And remember, your bankroll will go up a lot faster than your skill will. So please, for the love of krikey, move back down to 2NL. I don't want to read in this op in a few days, "well shitsakes! I got coolered 8 straight times and now my entire BR is gone!waahhhhh"

[daeyeth]

Ahh I'll take the risk. I will gamble what I've made so far and stay at $5NL until my BR goes down to 50$. If I do lose what I've made so far, I'm fine with that because I deserve to lose it. I told ya, I made what I have so far by being a donkey, so I'll lose it like a donkey.

[jyms]

Not accepting what some think is the most important advice will only mean your going to lose a ton of people that have been willing to help up until now. Screwing with BR management just shows you have no plans on being successful, but prefer to be a gambler. Maybe blackjack or roulette is your game. I for one have no concerns either way. GL with the rest of the OP.

[Keith]

Not accepting what some think is the most important advice will only mean your going to lose a ton of people that have been willing to help up until now. Screwing with BR management just shows you have no plans on being successful, but prefer to be a gambler. Maybe blackjack or roulette is your game. I for one have no concerns either way. GL with the rest of the OP.

I couldn't have put it better Jyms . What I find to be the most idiotic is that with two of us telling you to stick to bankroll management you say nah , to hell with it I want some fun and excitement. Fine , go ahead and have it but I'm now finished with giving you advice until you show you're here looking to learn and improve and not piss about having a laugh.

Good luck , you're gonna need it.

[daeyeth]

Best learning tool is experience. The donkey isn't gonna learn until he's beat down with a stick lol. I don't blame you guys of course. Thanks for the help you've given me, I really appreciate all the advice thus far and I know, I know it's frustrating. But sorry, can't help it!

No matter how much you try, no matter how perfect your advice is, you can't teach someone who's never played poker to stop him from going on tilt. It's impossible! Sooner or later, even with his brain telling him how illogical it is, he's gonna go on tilt at least once. It's unavoidable.

While bankroll management is easier to follow than avoiding tilt, the person's gotta have the right motivation and disciplined mindset to begin with. I don't got that! I'm not an honor roll valedictorian, I'm a jobless, part-time college student who averages Cs lol.

I mean, my goal coming into this was make money for a computer, not build a stable roll. I'm surprised nobody pointed it out but that can't be a good mindset to have.

I hope I can come out unscathed but if not, this was an awesome experience. Honestly, I wouldn't of lasted this long if it wasn't for you guys, for this blog.

Blind fold on, cigarette lit

--Signed, the Stubborn Donkey

[daeyeth]

Had a sweet sesh tonight. Early on I already had some new notes to jot down (I lost in other words). I was fairly even for the most part, though towards the end I started to downward a bit with the exception of my last hand of course. I always stop after I win or lose big, short spurts, as I tend to lose my focus after losing big and feel protective after I win big.

So the last hand I had JTs and raised UTG. Why? Well, I saw Tom Dwan do it on TV the other day and I was like, "hey, that's looks easy, I can do that". Lo and behold, I flopped a double gutter straight flush draw and had two callers with me! JTs is my new favorite hand, I'm totally gonna start playing them like Aces preflop.
Disclaimer: I will not be held accountable for taking the previous paragraph seriously
This pot was definitely the biggest I'd ever won, outside my donkey ventures. Probably shoulda bet more but my noob instincts still fear the fold.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($5.60)
CO ($1.91)
Button ($10.50)
SB ($3.05)
BB ($5.43)
UTG ($2.58)
daeyeth (UTG+1) ($5.66)
MP1 ($6.97)
MP2 ($4.57)

Preflop: daeyeth is UTG+1 with 10, J
1 fold, daeyeth bets $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20, MP2 calls $0.20, 5 folds

Flop: ($0.67) K, 8, Q (3 players)
daeyeth bets $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50

Turn: ($2.17) 9 (3 players)
daeyeth bets $1.40, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1.40

River: ($4.97) 6 (2 players)
daeyeth bets $3.56 (All-In), MP2 calls $2.47 (All-In)

Total pot: $9.91 | Rake: $0.45

Results:
daeyeth had 10, J (straight, King high).
MP2 had A, K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: daeyeth won $9.46

[Keith]

Best learning tool is experience. The donkey isn't gonna learn until he's beat down with a stick lol. I don't blame you guys of course. Thanks for the help you've given me, I really appreciate all the advice thus far and I know, I know it's frustrating. But sorry, can't help it!

I know what I said but this is now going to be my last comment. The bolded bit is the worst possible thing to believe. The best learning comes form people who have been there done that made the mistakes and then pass on to others so that they don't make those mistakes. If you want to improve at gold you get some lessons from a golf pro, if you want to learn how to drive you get some driving lessons. You don't just turn up at your local golf course and hit balls all day long and all of a sudden become good at golf , same with driving , you don't just jump in a car drive round for a bit and pass your driving test just by driving round a lot , you need people to tell you where you are going wrong and what you are doing right.

No matter how much you try, no matter how perfect your advice is, you can't teach someone who's never played poker to stop him from going on tilt. It's impossible! Sooner or later, even with his brain telling him how illogical it is, he's gonna go on tilt at least once. It's unavoidable.

Rubbish. Playing bad cards at the wrong times is going to tilt you ,getting sucked out on will tilt you.Advice will stop you from doing the former and with experience you will learn that getting sucked out on is good in the long run . As long as you got your money in good with an equity advantage you will be making money in ythe long term from making that same play. When its happened to you a lot ,you learn to shrug it off and not let it affect you as you know you made the right play and making the right play over time will win you the most money.

While bankroll management is easier to follow than avoiding tilt, the person's gotta have the right motivation and disciplined mindset to begin with. I don't got that! I'm not an honor roll valedictorian, I'm a jobless, part-time college student who averages Cs lol.

I mean, my goal coming into this was make money for a computer, not build a stable roll. I'm surprised nobody pointed it out but that can't be a good mindset to have.

The highlighted bits should the the reason for bankroll management in your case , I.e jobless so shouldn't be risking your bankroll unnecessarily and the second is the motivation to actually practise bankroll management so that you don't put your roll at risk and make it harder to achieve your goal.

I hope I can come out unscathed but if not, this was an awesome experience. Honestly, I wouldn't of lasted this long if it wasn't for you guys, for this blog.

Blind fold on, cigarette lit

--Signed, the Stubborn Donkey

And quit smoking, work out how much you are spending a week smoking, multiply it up over the year then work out how much you'll be spending over the next 10 , 20 30 years and don't forget to allow for inflation and think holy fuck , I could be that much better off if i give up.

And as far as the hand you posted . Fold pre , playing it because you saw Dwan play it is the worst possible reason going for playing it UTG.You don't have the ability he has to play postflop yet.