I'm through runnin'

[dalecooper]

This guy was on two of my tables but I had only scraped together 30 hands with him so far. However, this was his 4th pre-flop 3-bet in those hands, he was clearly very positionally aware, and was mixing it up post-flop with a couple of TAggs (usually forcing them to fold as the pot escalated wildly; he either was running hot or isn't afraid to barrel a couple streets). Stats were 35/29/10, with a big grain of salt for sample size.

How's this?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($50)
BB ($123.35)
UTG ($147.15)
MP ($58.50)
Hero (CO) ($50)
Button ($50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with :Jh: :As:
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, Button calls $1.50, SB raises to $7.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $6, 1 fold

Flop: ($17) :Ac: (2 players)
SB bets $12, Hero raises to $42.50 (All-In)...

[dalecooper]

Main interests are pre-flop (better to 4-bet?) and flop (better to call? cuz I'm not folding). I'm also wondering about this from a theoretical standpoint - is it +EV to take a stand with somebody this early in a session based on partial information? I try to trust my gut but in this case I don't have much more than my gut - I've only sat with the guy for five orbits.

[meeloche]

No.

I would just muck it pre. Very big reverse implied spot that only becomes profitable with a much larger history of spewiness. 4 betting is only good if you think he's felting worse.

[Fnord]

Your flop line is a level.
Usually this is a call-down.

[griffey24]

This is no goooood.

Ask yourself: "why am I shoving?" ... is it for value or a bluff? If its for value, are there many worse hands that will call? I can see how you might say "I'm shoving and repping a FD to get called by worse", but that doesn't work in spots where his range is pretty polarized to hands that will insta-fold or insta-call. The best hands in his range are QQ/KK and they prob won't bet here that often in the first place, let alone b/c without serious history.

If he has air, you just let him fold without trying to bluff you off on later streets. If he has better he's insta calling. If he has A9/AT you will get value, but he'll probably bet those on later streets anyhow. So the only thing that might might call is clubs, but you might have priced him off that too.

In summary: this is only good if you like getting called by better, and folds by worse.

[Genitruc]

this is good against ppl who are capable of levelling themselves

against an unknown lagg there's no point in raising the flop if you call (I don't think preflop is nearly as bad as some ppl are saying).

[Alexos]

of course preflop is bad, only when u have EXTENSIVE reads about your opponent and his tendencies is this good...

I mean tbh the shove isnt that bad, he could lvl himself into a call with JJ+, b/c he can't put you on many aces since he thinks calling pre with stuff like AJ is pretty bad.

But I usually just call down here.

[Genitruc]

somebody who is 3-betting a ton preflop will very often be capable ofsqueezing in a really obvious spot like this. He'll be 3-betting pretty much 100% of flops we hit and we have position.

obv this is assuming a few things we can't be 100% sure of but I think as a default play against a laggy opponent who has shown lots of preflop aggression calling is fine.

[Alexos]

yeah but this is assuming we're completly ignoring the button and HIS tendencies.. we could go on and on...

[Irisheyes]

no for all the reasons stated above.

[dalecooper]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Additional questions:

- If it's AJ sooooted, do we feel differently about calling? How about AQ suited or off?

- Given a partial read as described, what are your 4-betting and calling ranges pre-flop? Do you still tend to fold most hands and wait for a better read?

Thoughts on the flop action: Yes, I thought I might get some calls from him because of levelling. I thought he might put me on a flush draw or a pocket pair. I also thought I might get some calls from weaker aces. Finally there was a bit of cliff diver's anxiety - I knew I'd reached a point where I couldn't fold, and also a point where because of pot size and my opponent's aggression, all the money was likely to go in. So rather than wait, I jumped. One second after the hand ended I thought "I really should have just called there" - and you guys all confirmed it.

Results: I turned out to get pretty lucky here. He had Kc 9c and snap-called (pot committed or just not interested in folding, I'm not sure which). No clubs and MHIG.

[Da GOAT]

im surprised but i think i would call him preflop since opp is very aggro preflop.

on flop ill calldown