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why is domination important?

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  1. 10-10-2008 04:42 AM #1
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    Default why is domination important?

    random post, hopefully not vague..but anyway, i've been questioning the importance of being dominated:

    for example, if i'm in the BB with KTo and the BTN is calling my 3bet with KQs, AQ, AJs, 88+ or something like that...how often does it matter that his range dominates me?

    like when he has KQs, the flop has a K or Q about 1/3 of the time...actually less since I have a King.

    maybe this is obvoius for some of u...but any thoughts are appreciated.
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  2. 10-10-2008 06:09 AM #2
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    heh ok so here's an IM about this

    [02:59] [email protected]: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...nt-t77245.html
    [02:59] [email protected]: kind of spaz posted it
    [02:59] Dylan: LOL
    [03:00] [email protected]: was thinking off and on tho
    [03:00] Dylan: HAHAHAHAHAHAH
    [03:00] [email protected]: hehe
    [03:00] Dylan: wow
    [03:00] Dylan: i'm dying
    [03:00] [email protected]: shrooms ftw!! ----ya, a bit too much fun lately
    [03:00] Dylan: no shit
    [03:00] Dylan: was just thinking 'wow that is the shrooms right there'
    [03:00] Dylan: you basically asked 'what is the important of getting it in with the best hand '
    [03:00] [email protected]: heh
    [03:00] Dylan: i think teh answer of your post is 'do you like money?'
    [03:00] [email protected]: well like if u call with A3o from tag, and raise anty flop..
    [03:00] [email protected]: is that bad?
    [03:01] [email protected]: like he has AQ, AK a lot..
    [03:01] Dylan: if you call with a3 off on the BB to a button raise?
    [03:01] [email protected]: and will miss cuz u have A
    [03:01] [email protected]: from like his MP
    [03:01] Dylan: so you just intend to bluff him?
    [03:01] [email protected]: and u r CO or BTN
    [03:01] Dylan: what if he hits a Q
    [03:01] Dylan: and ha sAQ
    [03:01] [email protected]: 1/4 ish o fthe time?
    [03:01] Dylan: i dunno
    [03:01] Dylan: i don't get it
    [03:01] Dylan: so you're saying
    [03:01] Dylan: you should reraise with hands more likely dominated
    [03:01] Dylan: so that when the ppl call they'll miss more often?
    [03:02] Dylan: i like where this is going
    [03:02] [email protected]: not exactly..
    [03:02] [email protected]: u call more pre
    [03:02] [email protected]: with dominated hands
    [03:02] [email protected]: cuz u know that they'll miss the flop
    [03:02] [email protected]: more
    [03:02] Dylan: ok
    [03:02] Dylan: well that's just the idea of positoin
    [03:03] Dylan: outplaying your opponent with any 2
    [03:03] Dylan: you don't know what they have...
    [03:03] Dylan: so like
    [03:03] Dylan: if you call with a3
    [03:03] [email protected]: but more than that cuz ur using card removal
    [03:03] [email protected]: too
    [03:03] Dylan: and they have kqs
    [03:03] Dylan: well
    [03:03] Dylan: i dunno man
    [03:03] [email protected]: its more relevant when u have A3 and they have AK
    [03:03] Dylan: yeah
    [03:03] Dylan: but how do you know that?
    [03:03] Dylan: they could have JJ just as easily
    [03:03] Dylan: well not as easily
    [03:03] [email protected]: u dont, but it helps
    [03:03] Dylan: but isn't it the same idea pf?
    [03:03] Dylan: as in
    [03:03] Dylan: if you have A3
    [03:03] [email protected]: similar to 4betting A3o is better
    [03:03] Dylan: isn't it less likely they have AK to beign with?
    [03:03] [email protected]: cuz less ways for them to have AA, AK
    [03:03] Dylan: right
    [03:04] Dylan: so why call and see a flop
    [03:04] Dylan: if you prob aren't dominated?
    [03:04] [email protected]: i dunno man it was a random idea lol
    [03:04] Dylan: so the card removal thing backfires no?
    [03:04] Dylan: hahahah
    [03:04] Dylan: it's all good
    [03:04] Dylan: you might be right
    [03:04] [email protected]: yea rr'ing prob better
    [03:04] Dylan: just playing devil's advocate
    [03:04] [email protected]: take it down right away that way
    [03:04] Dylan: but it seems like it's not something that's +ev
    [03:04] Dylan: like ever
    [03:04] Dylan: yeah
    [03:04] Dylan: ok
    [03:04] Dylan: fuck man
    [03:04] [email protected]: it's prob similar in ev to a rr tho
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  3. 10-10-2008 06:15 AM #3
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    OK..my question is whether rr'ing meh hands like KTo is better than calling and raising flops in a situation with a decent/mediocre tag MP and u r in CO or BTN and without much history. gah this prob depends on a lot of stuff...
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  4. 10-10-2008 07:58 AM #4
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    I thought this thread was gonna be about S&M.
    Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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  5. 10-10-2008 08:01 AM #5
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    sorry
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  6. 10-10-2008 02:37 PM #6
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    it used to be a cool thing to say, now we realize there are much more important things than being dominated.
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  7. 10-10-2008 03:50 PM #7
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    Its all about calculating your equity and forming ranges, so yes being dominated is very important, but I just wouldn't use the world dominated i'd just used the word horrible equity its much more accurate.

    If your dominated your equity sucks meaning we're losing the most money.
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  8. 10-10-2008 04:02 PM #8
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    You want to 3-bet with hands that have decent equity on flops where you both feel like putting money in. If you 3-bet with 84s then you probably aren't dominated preflop but the most common situation postflop when money goes in will be when you have 2nd pair and your opponent has top pair so you might as well be dominated.
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  9. 10-10-2008 05:05 PM #9
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    because you are pack leader, you must exhibit the dominant energy of the household and they will follow
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  10. 10-10-2008 08:22 PM #10
    Ash256
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    Surely implied somethingorother is a huge factor in addition to shitty equity?
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  11. 10-10-2008 08:56 PM #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixchange
    because you are pack leader, you must exhibit the dominant energy of the household and they will follow
    i lol'd
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  12. 10-10-2008 11:02 PM #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
    Quote Originally Posted by mixchange
    because you are pack leader, you must exhibit the dominant energy of the household and they will follow
    i lol'd
    I did too, ha


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  13. 10-13-2008 06:21 AM #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by UG
    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
    Quote Originally Posted by mixchange
    because you are pack leader, you must exhibit the dominant energy of the household and they will follow
    i lol'd
    I did too, ha
    I didn't, but i'm stupid, not english/american and busy at work.
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  14. 10-13-2008 06:25 AM #14
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    that is not the type of behavior we are looking for.

    we'll try this again, and keep trying it and until we get the desired state -- calm, submissive.
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  15. 10-13-2008 01:15 PM #15
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  16. 10-15-2008 05:34 AM #16
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    ben, seems like you're letting the advantage of position overlap into a basic equity calculation.

    sure I can call on the btn w 27o everytime to a meh TAGG's CO open and turn a profit.

    It has nothing to do with my 2 cards and whether they're dominated or not...

    Thank God you wrote this while high on shrooms!

    edit : just reread your chat and man is the part where you compare calling oop w A3 to 4-bet bluffing A3 awesome.
    when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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  17. 10-15-2008 05:58 PM #17
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  18. 10-15-2008 06:32 PM #18
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    I don't think domination is as important as people make it to be, unless u wanna play A5, K6 type hands, then domination is more of an issue. But for broadway-type hands it's pretty rare to flop a pair and be dominated, and in 3bet pots where people either fold a lot or shove gutshots and shit, being dominated is the last thing you wanna worry about. IMO... make sense i hope
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