200nl, qq flop overpair vs crazy and caller

[daven]

sb is 54-6 over 40 and his play here could be any jack, pairs 99+, etc. Think non-reg fish.
co is sukittrebek, seems 10-6 nit over 50ish hands - i've seen him call c-bets light/float. That's all i knew about him then.

i've run 16-11 so far at this table, c-bet a couple of times already. Two showdowns, one vs a shortstack min-raise that i called in bb, and then lost $25 (villain's stack-size) with top pair vs two pair.
The other was when i raised aa from ep and got two 20bb callers. Flop 345 and i have overpair, gutshot + runner runner nfd. I cbet 2/3 pot and called the $9 raise to stack one of the shortstack fish.


I'm way ahead of sb, but a little nervous about co - range maybe AJs, JJ+, 88, 99, TT, 22? 9T seems unlikely.
Time to dance?
if I shove there's no more thinking to do.
if i call, my stack's going in anyway.
or?
Best line?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($220.60)
UTG ($62.75)
UTG+1 ($188.70)
Hero (MP1) ($221.85)
MP2 ($99)
MP3 ($70.95)
CO ($687)
Button ($208.05)
SB ($108.85)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 2 folds, CO calls $7, 1 fold, SB calls $6, 1 fold

Flop: ($23) J, 8, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $14, CO calls $14, SB raises to $101.85 (All-In),don't feel a fold, so call or shove?

[nutsinho]

if i call, my stack's going in anyway.

why? calling this shove and folding for 110 more if reg re-ships seems perfectly fine and optimal.

[daven]

if i call, my stack's going in anyway.

why? calling this shove and folding for 110 more if reg re-ships seems perfectly fine and optimal.

yep, i think you're right - I'm looking pretty strong, like JJ-AA - and nit-regs wouldn't stack off light here.... shoving is likely with a better hand, especially if they suspect (correctly) that in the heat of the moment I might not find a fold

but what about the situation where villain calls. Then I'm facing a $320 pot with $110ish behind oop, I struggle to fold then with an overpair, probably yet another leak - just lucky it's a reasonably rare set of circumstances

[bigspenda73]

lulz the nits initial flop call probably means you're crushed tbh.

[nutsinho]

he gives some reads that make this spot more optimistic than usual spendaaaaa

[BankItDrew]

you HAVE to call here thinking u are ahead of sb's range and ahead of co's range.

sorry... but co played it weak + sb is shoing with any J

[bigspenda73]

yea but it's a multi-way pot with a fish in it who is left to act behind him

[BankItDrew]

yea but it's a multi-way pot with a fish in it who is left to act behind him

please explain your "but"

a fish behind is a great reason to be calling a shove of this size

[bigspenda73]

was saying I doubt the other player is floating us with the fish still to act

[daven]

was saying I doubt the other player is floating us with the fish still to act

wouldn't that give even more reason to float? the only fear is that he gives fish pot-odds to call if he has a straight draw. Flop raise might scare the fish away.

[Squeaky_Midget1]

Role Play:
If you were CO and called with JJ/88 pre flop and flop a set. Now you have a player betting semi strong into 3 people with a crazyfish left to act. You sure as hell dont want to bet the fish out. But youre probably flatting hoping the fish goes crazy on the flop or the money goes in on the turn 3 way.

And according to the gap theory I think CO has both of you crushed here.

[elipsesjeff]

I like nuts' line here, we can't fold because CO could just as easily have TT/99/AJ/KJ/JT but if he ships we're smoked.