OP: Violate Bankroll Management Rules, Achieve SilverStar

[mormannorman]

I have a $400 bankroll, and my plan is to two table 50NL until I either make Pokerstars SilverStar status for the month of March, or get down to $200. I can only two table because of internet connection crappiness and a lack of studliness on my part. I am going to go with cash games because I crunched some numbers and I would have to play an astronomical amount of SNGs to get enough VPPs. Also, cash games seem to have less variance for me.

Please do not tell me these are too high of stakes for me. I already know. The thing is that I have a full-time job, two kids in diapers, and very little time on my hands, so I can really only play at night and during naps on the weekends and during Spring Break (hence, why I am trying this in March).

I figure that the worst case scenario is that I lose 4 buy ins, which I am comfortable with. Then I'll drop back down to 10NL and grind away there again.

Since I am moving up in levels, I was wondering if anybody has any insight on differences between 25NL and 50NL. I have been profitable on the former, but I think I will have to be more aggressive on 50NL?

I will try to update with hands and stats throughout the month... I just got the 60 day trial of PT, which I am so stoked about. Any constructive insight is welcome.

Cheers!

[dranger7070]

Don't expect too much constructive insight imo. What you are doing is reckless, and pretty much a gift for any 50nl regs. You state that you are currently grinding 10nl. The gap between 10nl and 50nl is quite large, as I'm sure you can imagine.

The real question is: Why do you want silverstar status so badly that you are willing to risk a $400 roll on it? Like the bonuses aren't very good. The only time it really becomes profitable to grind for a VIP status Supernova and Supernova Elite. (At least thats what I've heard.)

[BoondockSaint]

Sounds good, im on my 60 day poker tracker trial too. Good luck with the operation.

[BoondockSaint]

Where do you live Alaska? Hows your body do with those super long nights and super long days.

[Parasurama]

Seriously why do you want silverstar? It's not worth it at all, you can just waste fpp's on more junk

[BennyLaRue]

There's a big difference between 1) violating bankroll management without regard and then wondering "wha happened" after losing your roll or complaining about bad luck and 2) a guy knowing he's violating bankroll management, accepting that risk and doing it anyway to blow off some steam.

As long as the OP truly doesn't really care about or need the $400, no harm, no foul.

[Jason]

Please do not tell me these are too high of stakes for me. I already know ...I figure that the worst case scenario is that I lose 4 buy ins, which I am comfortable with. Then I'll drop back down to 10NL and grind away there again.

I guess I'll see you @ $10 NL

[badgers]

are you playing full ring?

[Micro2Macro]

Whats your Stars Screen name


GL

[mormannorman]

I guess I should clarify: I'm not doing this because I think the Stars VIP is all that and a bag of potato chips. I'm doing this because I have some extra time on my hands in March and it gives me something to shoot for.

I have been playing 25NL six-max but I think I'll stick to full ring for the operation.

Thanks for the support, guys. I really cannot wait to get started.

[badgers]

haha ok

the games are not more aggressive. I would call 50nl epic nitland.

[mormannorman]

Alrighty,

So I started playing tonight because PS goes by Eastern Standard Time and I just couldn't wait. My Poker Tracker goes by Alaska time though, so what I did tonight won't show up as played in March unless I mess with it somehow.

I played for two-ish hours... 40 FPPs earned, BR stands at 428, which isn't bad considering I had my AA cracked (by a short stack thankfully).

My biggest hand: someone 4 bet me from the BB, I called with QQ, the flop was all low and rainbow and he led out with a 3/4 pot sized bet, which I called. He checked the turn and I bet 1/2 the pot and he folded and gave me 1/2 his stack... no reads but he had only played one hand in two orbits since I sat down so I was nervous about his range.

Hopefully, I'll figure out the hand converter and how to import some stats from Poker Tracker so that I don't have to tell long winded stories about my play.

Oh, and apparently PokerStars just lowered the requirement to get a Silver Star from 1500 to 1200?!? That makes my operation 1/5 easier...

1160 FPPs to go

428 BR

[flomo]

this is going to be entertaining

GL

[Micro2Macro]

If you're playing 25nl 6-max I don't think it would take too much volume to achieve silver star. And you'd also follow better bankroll management, thus less risk.

Just a thought.

[sil693]

i used to think getting to silverstar would be awesome.
then you get there and its like, WTF IS THIS SHIT!??!!?!?!?!

[mormannorman]

i used to think getting to silverstar would be awesome.
then you get there and its like, WTF IS THIS SHIT!??!!?!?!?!

Yeah, it is a pretty arbitrary and probably pointless goal, but I like it because I could play break-even poker and still get it.

Okay, so two days in this is where I stand:

Bankroll----- $452

FPPs--- 101

I'm happy to be up one buy-in... but there are some leaks and I have only hit one big cooler so I'm sure more are coming.

I used to have (as of last night) the following leak:

I sit on the big blind breathlessly with KQs or something, standard LP raise to me by an unknown with a cute kid or a black lab as his picture probably, I call... the flop comes down A-4-7. I decide to donk into the guy, potsize and he calls. I'm like "Oh, but you don't understand, I have top pair or maybe even two pair or a set, man" and throw in another potsized bet on the turn which he calls. Now I'm like "screw you for slow playing your set" and check to him on the river brick and he checks too and he has 7-8 and takes down a $10 pot.

I think the leak is: I need to defend my blinds with reraises and also figure out who the calling stations are before I start two barrelling crap.

The nice thing about it is: this sort of hand shows me who the calling stations are and reinforces their tendency to play third pair or gutshots or whathaveyou and I can exploit them later (theoretically).

I'm going to play some tonight but might only play sparingly until the weekend to prove to my wife that I'm not addicted to poker (even though I am).

Oh, and Micro... about 25NL six max---- you may be right although I am limited because I only want to play two tables. I think I will edit my operation to include the following: If my bankroll falls below $300, I will drop down to 25NL unless I am crunched for time and almost at my goal.

Cheers.

[DemonDaze]

I have a $400 bankroll, and my plan is to two table 50NL until I either make Pokerstars SilverStar status for the month of March, or get down to $200. I can only two table because of internet connection crappiness and a lack of studliness on my part. I am going to go with cash games because I crunched some numbers and I would have to play an astronomical amount of SNGs to get enough VPPs. Also, cash games seem to have less variance for me.

Why not shortstack if you want to play 50NL with $400?

[mormannorman]

Hmmmm.... did I play this wrong? No reads on the villain, he just sat down with a short stack. Are there adjustments to be made because he is a shorty?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed)

Button ($21.45)
SB ($67)
Hero (BB) ($46)
UTG ($50)
MP ($15)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Js, Jh
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero bets $2, MP (poster) calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4.75) 3d, 6d, 3c (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, MP calls $2.50

Since he didn't reraise, I put him on a flush draw... maybe overcards. Is this bet too small if I want to make either -EV?

Turn: ($9.75) 5c (2 players)
Hero bets $7.50, MP raises to $10.50 (All-In), Hero calls $3

A brick, unless he has 44 or something, so I commit...

River: ($30.75) Ah (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $30.75 | Rake: $1.50

[mormannorman]

No takers on the hand analysis, huh? Probably I need to find more interesting hands, or post hands the correct part of the forum.

Onwards.

Happily, I'm up two buy-ins now, and I'm proud to say that with one exception, none of my success has been through doubling up with the nuts or AA or anything.

I also got quad-2's and took down a medium sized pot at showdown, refraining from overbetting them (which was good because the villain had a pretty marginal hand).

How do you post graphs from PT? I really want to do this.

Current BR--- 507

Current VPPs--- 172

Good luck at the tables tonight guys... I can say this because I won't be there...

[BooG690]

I think you just have to convert your hands...it really does make things 100x easier to read. Good luck on your journey my friend...

[kevster]

Since he didn't reraise, I put him on a flush draw... maybe overcards.

IMO, plenty of other stuff flat calls here. What's your image like at this point?

[BennyLaRue]

No takers on the hand analysis, huh? Probably I need to find more interesting hands, or post hands the correct part of the forum.

Once you get to 10 posts, you'll be able to post links (which will make your hand histories easier to read because it will post pretty little pictures of the cards).

[drmcboy]

short stack ftw

also not having enough time is a nonsense reason to play above your roll, if you want to take a shot with half your roll just call it that.

[BadAssOutlaw]

short stack ftw

also not having enough time is a nonsense reason to play above your roll, if you want to take a shot with half your roll just call it that.

he seems to be doing alright though... of course I agree that this is nuts, but it's also a bit entertaining and so far so good... I just dread the post that's going to come later when he actually loses a big session.... keep it up though man, rooting for ya

[donkbee]

good luck mormannorman, interesting op.

[mormannorman]

Okay... First of all:

BR $497

FPPs 242 (958 to go)

Played a few hundred hands... meh, I believe is the expression, although I'm new to this. A few quirky hands:

My AQ got beat by a 63 on a 669A2 board by a 60% VPIP drooling (and proud) drunk with a big stack (he doubled up off someone to get to $100, and had been throwing his chips away ever since)... I only lost 20 bucks (instead of 50) because I backed off and played nonstandard on a hunch (okay, I admit, I thought he had AK). No lesson learned here except that you can't really put some dorks on much of a range.

Sadly, he left an orbit later before I could get my money back.

Another: I raised 3XBB from UTG and got called by one, two, three, no wait... four people. So five of us look at an all spades 4JA flop... The SB bets 1/2 pot, the BB bets his stack, and I fold my kings. I got out with my KK losing only $1.50 and didn't even go crossed eyed thinking about it.

Had bad luck in the sense that I split two big pots (flopped a boat, then BOTH villain and I got a bigger boat (he had A8, I had 88) (!^*&%)... then, I hit the second nut straight draw and the villain also randomly happened to have a 9 too).

Small comfort: at least splitting big ass hands gives you FPPs, but... it also opens one's eyes to the FREAKING HUGE rake and how much money PS is making off me and tossing me crumbs in the form of frequent player points. I was like, "Arggghhh, I just lost a buck with NUTS!!!!" (gnashing teeth, pulling hair, etc)

I swear, if I ever get sufficiently rolled, I'm going to withdraw 3/4 and start whoring around for bonus dollars on other sites. It seems like the only way to not have the rake kick your ass. How much harder is the Ultimate Bet one to clear than the Full Tilt one?

[dranger7070]

I haven't bonus whored (thought about it though) and I hear the UB bonus is pretty much neverending to clear. I know Full Tilt is doable if you can put in enough volume at 25nl+ (although I wouldn't attempt it until 50nl+). Just expect a lot of nits doing the same thing you are doing on FT.

[mormannorman]

Thanks dranger... I think that if this operation doesn't go to pieces my goal will be to get to $2000, and instead of moving on up to 100NL, withdraw and try to clear a bonus on another site.

That is long term...

Although...

So far so good with my operation.... finally hit a big double up hand: the nut straight hit on the turn vs two pair... (I'm the button)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($46.25)
BB ($53.60)
UTG ($34.35)
MP ($131.55)
Button ($48.50)

Preflop:
UTG bets $2, 1 fold, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold

Flop: ($6.50) , , (3 players)
SB checks, UTG bets $3, Button calls $3, SB raises to $7, UTG calls $4, Button calls $4

Turn: ($27.50) (3 players)
SB bets $14.50, 1 fold, Button raises to $39.50 (All-In), SB calls $22.75 (All-In)

River: ($102) (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $102 | Rake: $2

Results:
Button had K, J (straight, King high).
SB had Q, 10 (two pair, Queens and tens).
Outcome: Button won $100


Obviously, it worked out well but I'm wondering: did I play this hand well (odds wise)? Because if he had had a set instead of two pair I would have been smoked.

[mormannorman]

One week down, and it has been a good one.

Current BR: $597

VPPs: 317 (883 to go)

I'm up almost four buy-ins which hopefully will insulate me from the inevitable cooler or two down the road.

I've noticed: the weekend players seem to be A LOT looser, ie more willing to bluff big or bet big with TPTK. I think I played badly today (have trouble adjusting to said playing style as opposed to the nitty late night crowd I'm used to)... I only won money because I was running well and hitting my cards on the flop. It is nice when that happens, huh? But I would have won more if I hadn't played a couple of hands like an ass.

Conversely, it seems to me that a big chunk of the so-called 50NL regs (the ones who I see all the time and/or who flash their VIP stars around like dorks) are playing the six-max tables waaaaay too tight preflop (with VPIPs in the low teens and even single digits). In other words, they seem to be only betting with premium hands and playing very brainless poker.

The only "tricky" thing they do is raise limpers, which of course isn't tricky at all.

Because I live in Alaska, I play at weird times (usually starting at midnight on the US east coast) so I think I'm running into more than my fair share of these guys who 16 table and only play the top 10% of their hands. On weeknights, they are often the only ones left playing at 2 am Eastern Time.

Of course, it is easy to criticize the competition when you have been running well and crushing them.

[mormannorman]

Well, the haters who have been waiting to say "I told you so" can now say it... sort of.

Bankroll: $499

VPPs: 570 (630 to go)

Went on the inevitable downswing two nights ago. I won't bore you with the details, but lets just say I missed a few draws, put my KK against AK preflop for a full stack, and got a set all in against my straight on the turn before the board paired up on the river. That's poker. I also made one idiotic $10 call on the river with my K high after I missed my flush draw.

I'm not sure that I tilt like other people... usually when I get beat big a few times, I tighten up. In fact, I probably made my slide deeper just by betting more passively post-flop because I become sure that I'm beat again. Looking back over my stats, my preflop stats didn't change really from their historic levels but I think my post flop play became more and more timid which doesn't help anything.

Well, I dropped three buy ins (150 bucks!) over two nights, before winning back 50 today. Sadly, my positive swing today was more a result of somebody else playing dumb than me grinding brilliantly.

[donkbee]

someone else playing dumb is still money in your pocket, and that's all that matters!

[Ragnar4]

shenanigans imo

Paging slev to this thread so he can watch a brutal failure of BRM

[sil693]

shenanigans imo

Paging slev to this thread so he can watch a brutal failure of BRM

yah because this is something he has never seen before. . .

[donkbee]

why do you guys care so much about people using bad bankroll management especially when they KNOW they're doing it? This isn't the beginners circle, so stop trying so hard here.

[Sir Pawnalot]

The most important asset to a poker player is his intelligence and you clearly show that you have a lot. Intelligence + experience is a deadly combination.

People who berate you for poor BR management have probably not read your posts and as long you know that the risk of going busto is very real- there is no harm in doing so.

I wish you all the best of luck, but more importantly I hope you learn a lot from this experiment/OP.

P.S

Calling a 4bb bet from UTG raiser with KJ is something I have never done. Basically you are putting yourself in a spot with very little Equity.

[mormannorman]

lol at the bitter comments from ragnar and sil... it is one thing to expect someone to fail but hope for the best, and quite another to wish someone ill so that it validates your own views. with guys like that, there is no middle ground: If I succeed, it makes them mad and I am only a lucky fish. If I fail, they are ecstatic because it proves they were right.

It's like they were tilting about blogs instead of cards. I'll have to look at Slevin's blog to see what he did to piss them off so much. Won, probably.

Still, thanks to them my humble blog was briefly labeled "HOT" on the FTR front page.

Thanks guys!

Also, thanks to Sir P and Courtie for their positive feedback. Additionally, thanks to all the grinders out there who do follow exceptional BR management but don't hope bad things happen to everyone that isn't as smart as them.

Peace!

[sil693]

bitter comments??

dude i wasn't being bitter towards you. doesn't bother me if you're choosing not to follow BRM and i dont hope bad things happen to you ldo.

gl.

[Ragnar4]

lol at the bitter comments from ragnar and sil... it is one thing to expect someone to fail but hope for the best, and quite another to wish someone ill so that it validates your own views. with guys like that, there is no middle ground: If I succeed, it makes them mad and I am only a lucky fish. If I fail, they are ecstatic because it proves they were right.

It's like they were tilting about blogs instead of cards. I'll have to look at Slevin's blog to see what he did to piss them off so much. Won, probably.

Still, thanks to them my humble blog was briefly labeled "HOT" on the FTR front page.

Thanks guys!

Also, thanks to Sir P and Courtie for their positive feedback. Additionally, thanks to all the grinders out there who do follow exceptional BR management but don't hope bad things happen to everyone that isn't as smart as them.

Peace!

Mormon.

Calling Shenanigans is not bitter. I'm actually kind of interested to see if you succeed. I know I couldn't, so It's kinda like watching professional rock climber with no gear trying to scale the side of a giant building. You're pretty sure they can do it, but if they fall, they are done.

What I am not, though, is conviced that one of the senior members of the FTR "Group" have not created a fake membership with the intent of leveling this blogs/ops community by regaling us with tales of short term success, followed by a meltdown as a cautionary lesson.

I really don't care whether you are, or arent. Its your money, spend it however you like. Good luck.

[LuckySlevin]

Nice work mormannmorman! Ftr's two token Bankroll mavericks

On a serious note, good luck man - just saw this thread, looking forward to checking out how you get on

[mormannorman]

ragnar,

It is hard not to take it personally when someone calls your op a "brutal failure" before it has even ended (esp. since I'm up $75). I accept your explanation, though, just please try to be more constructive next time. On a related note, you would not mistake me for an FTR pro if you ever saw me play.

As for the operation, here's where I'm at:

BR: 475

FPPs: 792 (408 to go)

Hands played: 3500 (don't laugh, that is a lot for me and I only 2 table)

Good cards seem to be few and far between for me these days (esp PreFlop) so I've been experimenting more with playing the opponents instead of the cards.... with mixed results.

I have a lot to learn on that front, still... there is nothing quite like reraising with your 93o and watching someone fold.

It is halfway through the month and I have 2/3 of the FPPs I set out for. I'm probably going to take a few days off because I go back to work tomorrow and also my friend lent me his really really fast snowmobile, so I'll be playing on that in my free time.

So far, I consider the operation a success because I have made a little money and learned a thing or two at the 50NL tables.

[mormannorman]

Alright... I confess I haven't played a hand of virtual poker since last weekend, which is bad... but I had a crappy tiring stressful week at work and (even though I had some time in the evenings) I chose to do other stuff that is more brainless and impossible to lose money doing.

I was mad at my boss and I would have played all the hands like I was playing my boss... which is -EV because I would be assuming that everyone at the table is retarded.

I did spend my lunch hours at work sifting through strategy and hand postings here... so maybe I learned something anyway.

I'll be playing tonight... pretty excited about that. I'll post in a few hours if I'm not to tired.

[Luco]

Good luck Norman, Just remember to play a bit tighter and more honest at the weekend than you do during the week.

[mormannorman]

Played some this weekend... not as much as I wanted but enough that I whittled down the FPPs I need to get this month to 250.

Sadly, I also whittled down my BR to 450, which means that, for those of you keeping score at home, these are my operation's stats with one week to go:

Bankroll: 450 (up $50)

Hours played: 29

Hands: 4301

BB/100: an astounding 1.15

VPPs: 950

I consider myself lucky that I haven't destroyed my BR (yet) but I can't help but I was secretly hoping that I was going to crush 50NL, and that certainly hasn't happened.

I won't be playing much until the weekend, but I will try to check back sooner with a few things that have helped me from not going bankrupt (yes, luck has been a factor, you BR nits) and a few things that have hindered me this month.

Buena suerte, amigos.

[mormannorman]

Bankroll stands at $508 with a couple days to go in the month and 87 FPPs to get two pretty stars next to my name (which I will hide anyway).

I'm going to attribute the modest success I've had to the following factors, to name a few (sorry if they don't apply to you but it is my blog after all):

For what it's worth:

-don't play poker with a kid on your lap, or even in the same room. Exceptions can be made for sleeping infants.

-don't play with the computer room/desk messy (not sure why, but this tilts/distracts me)

-playing angry is okay, so is playing tired (I'm a father of two little babies so I'm always tired). Playing bored is not, because I try to create opportunities that don't exist... i.e. i bluff too much.

-don't snap call shoves, esp. with overpairs. Most people at 50NL will only give up on AA against flush boards... I need to get out of the habit of thinking, "well, I'm beating KK and QQ!" if I want to separate myself from the rest of the donks.

-ace-rag is getting less and less appealing the more I play, even shorthanded. I like my decisions to be easy, and it rarely is when you hit your ace with a bad kicker.

-I've played better because I have played 6max almost exclusively.

Next post'll cover the glorious end to this op, and perhaps what I should do next.

Hasta Luego.

[mormannorman]

i used to think getting to silverstar would be awesome.
then you get there and its like, WTF IS THIS SHIT!??!!?!?!?!

Pokerstars sez:

Dear Twheatski,

Congratulations! You have achieved SilverStar VIP status.

Your VIP level lasts for the rest of this month and all of next month.

This entitles you to the following rewards:

- 50% FPP Multiplier - you now earn 1.5 FPP credits instead of 1 FPP credit
- SilverStar VIP Store access - choose from new and exclusive merchandise in the SilverStar store
- $500 Daily VIP tourneys - 3 x a day - 10 FPP entry
- $20,000 Weekly VIP tourneys - Saturdays at 14:30 ET - 100 FPP buy-in
- $100,000 Monthly VIP tourney - last Saturday of each month - 130 FPP satellites available

Okay... second to last post for me on this particular operation thread.

Finished up 1200 Stars FPPS points easily on the 30th.

Final Numbers for March:

Hands: 5,555

Amount Won: $185.35

BB/100: 3.34

Days Played: 26

$/day: 7.13

Like I said before, I was secretly hoping to crush 50NL and obviously that didn't happen. My current bankroll is 570ish, which leaves me well rolled for.... 25NL.

Whoohooo. I figure I won't push my luck playing underrolled, so I plan on playing at 25 NL until I hit $1000, then...

Longterm: get to 2000, withdraw most off PS, put 600 on Full Tilt and grind away again. I might just withdraw when I hit 1000 cuz...

This will help me legitimize my hobby to my wife, whose main complaint about my poker hobby is that I have thrown over $200 into it thus far with nothing to show except alot of time ignoring her.

An actual check might help keep her off my back.

Next post will be a graph to show that I haven't actually been making stuff up, once I figure out how to post one of those.

[oskar]

Next post will be a graph to show that I haven't actually been making stuff up, once I figure out how to post one of those.

press print
open mspaing
ctrl-v
cut out the graph
ctrl-n
ctrl-v
save as gif

upload to imageshack
use the img tags to post it.