Stop fucking check-raising the river

[zook]

1. Villain is a decent tagg regular, running 22/19/3. I've battled him a fair amount but never seen him c/r the river that I recall.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($1163.90)
MP ($400)
Hero (Button) ($1389.10)
SB ($400)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, K
MP raises to $12, Hero calls $12, 2 folds

Flop: ($30) 3, Q, 9 (2 players)
MP bets $20, Hero calls $20

Turn: ($70) A (2 players)
MP bets $48, Hero calls $48

River: ($166) Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $120, MP raises to $320 (All-In), Hero...


2. Basically same villain profile as hand 1.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($412)
CO ($543.10)
Hero (Button) ($784.30)
SB ($82)
BB ($68)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, J
MP raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero calls $12, 2 folds

Flop: ($30) A, 7, 10 (2 players)
MP bets $24, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($78) 5 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

River: ($78) 3 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $60, MP raises to $220, Hero...


3. Villain is one of the least predictable regs in these games. I personally think he's terrible, but somehow he sticks around these stakes. Standard pre-flop stats (22/17/2.6) but really erratic post-flop. Will play solid poker for stretches but is prone to ill-timed big bluffs and calldowns. My notes say that he bluff c/r'ed the river once before with a missed flush draw.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($406)
UTG ($735.10)
Button ($421.90)
SB ($832.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 9
2 folds, SB raises to $16, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($32) 5, A, 7 (2 players)
SB bets $24, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($80) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($80) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $50, SB raises to $220, Hero...

[Alexos]

1) Your hand looks like Qx, he expects you to vbet Qx on river, he doesnt expect you to fold Qx.... I usually fold unless he's rly good or something

2) I think this is a very tough spot, given you checked the turn. He can't put you on any strong hand basically. I'd probably call.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

Hand 1 i agree with alexos completely.

Hand 2: You know i really think betting the turn (and im going to hate life if he c/r's, but i'll probably get it in anyway) is optimal here. Though this line is good too. I'm just not sure what to say, i mean with the general stuff you gave us its going to be like neutral EV to call here. But usually i have a sense of whether someone is likely to do this or a bluff or not if i've played with him a few hundred hands. You also have to think if he'd ever gotten tricky with made hands on the turn because usually people just default double barrel every draw here and a Good Ace or better.

But given that the turn and river never improve you here makes me more inclined to call.

hand 3 really? no turn bet?

[griffey24]

Hand 1 - I think this is the perfect kind of board for people to c/r rivers with boats. You either have Ax or trips here (which will bet if checked to likely) or you have a lowerpair which will only call his bet a small percentage of the time. So if he has a boat, he should definitely be c/bombing. I fold here.

Hand 2 - I don't get into these spots too much, cause I bet the turn a lot here. I feel like people c/c these turns with Tx trying to induce bets from our bluffs and draws. As played, I feel like its possible that he's tryin to c/r you off your miss draw, with his own air. I think thats definitely possible. The turn is way too draw heavy that I can't imagine him checking with a very strong hand. I call this.

Hand 3 - I bet turn again. I'll admit his river sizing scares me a bit here. These spots really confuse me. Would he really check a backdoor FD on the turn? Would he really check a hand like AK/AQ/AT on the turn, and if he did, would he really c/r the river so hard with them? AJ is the only hand that makes sense here... I'm a station, as played, given your line and your river sizing it doesn't look like you have an ace, I call.

[Outlaw]

Agree with Griff on hands 1 and 2.

Hand 3- looks like 55 or 77 to me. He hopes you have an ace so leads the flop.. Your call says you probably do. An ace hits the turn, he boats.. he hopes you bet but knows he can likely get it all in on the river.

If your read makes a worse ace or a missed draw possible, by all means call.. but I doubt he overshoves the river.. surely he knows you must have an Ace.

[griffey24]

Outlaw - I think an important part of hand 3 is that its bvb. Sooo many more hands than just Ax are possible on this flop for calling. 23,34,45,56,67,78,68,46,89,88-TT,Ax, full on floats with hearts/diamonds/clubs like QJss, or KQss. Any random float that is going to rep an A if you check the turn.

It's possible that all of the above hands could call the flop,and then the turn is the worst possible card for a float to try repping, so now they are forced to check behind. The river can be lots of hands, hands turning themselves into bluffs, bluffs(missed draws) or hands like TT going for thin value or something.

I think its really important to not just assume that when someone calls on a Q/K/A high board that they have top pair. So many more hands are often possible, if you look more closely.

[zook]

I think the turn decisions are interesting in both 2&3. I'm not convinced my check behinds were correct, but here's my thinking...

In 2 I think he's showing some serious weakness checking this turn and I think there's very little value betting. Sure I might get a call from KK-JJ and A9s once in awhile, but I think he's check/folding this a huge amount of the time and I'm still getting calls from those hands on a ton of rivers.

In 3 I think he's really polarizing his range by checking the turn and I would be doing the same by betting. I don't have much air in my flop float range (but maybe I could/should, given it's bvb). It's pretty hard for me to bet TT-88 for value on this turn so I feel like I'd be repping a really strong range by betting, making me less happy getting it in vs. a check/raise. But vs. this guy I probably should just bet and get it in.

[griffey24]

Hand 2 is a spot where I'd be flatting a ton of different draws, so I'd like to bet the turn here with an ace to protect all my floats/draws when I fire turn/rivers.

[Da GOAT]

Hand 1 - isnt this a sick spot for opp to c/r here?? Ofc we are gonna bet any A or Q here which is def the top of our range in that spot and we will fold a shit load to a cr.

Hand 2 - i think i would of bet turn, zook make a good point tho in opp having a polarised range here so a check thru sounds good too. But im with spewy griffey in betting it.

Hand 3 - I bet turn here too, protects floats/draws etc.

[griffey24]

Hand 1 - isnt this a sick spot for opp to c/r here?? Ofc we are gonna bet any A or Q here which is def the top of our range in that spot and we will fold a shit load to a cr.

I think this is a spot where we SHOULD fold, but where people DONT fold. So people don't bluff here, I don't think.

[Da GOAT]

yup totally agree

[IowaSkinsFan]

Hand 1: I fold quick.

Hand 2 and 3: Ugh these ones are a lot harder. If the guy never c/r's the turn on hand 2 or 3 thats really important, as that makes them more calls. I don't mind calling both, I'd call 3 more than I would 2 though.

[Renton]

foldcallcall