Give up the pot or ?

[AnTman_69]

Vil is 19/15/3, My image is tight (playing 15/11 3 atm after 40 hands)
cbet % 80. No rock solid reads, jst know that he's half decent and hes a reg. My original plan was to double any Club and give up if it was a blank, but i couldnt help myself.
His range after calling turn is AK/Q/j and flush draws. Sets definitely are raising at some point no? Any ways..my quesstion is, after setting up a PSB(or 3/4 watevs) for the riv, am i commited to bluffing at this pot on the riv?


$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Akula1337 ($98.30)
UTG+1 Skumdene ($41.75)
CO JoshhhM ($115.65)
BTN Moe1564 ($21.10)
SB Brathähnchen ($15.40)
BB Hero ($56.25)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, JoshhhM raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($4.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, JoshhhM bets $3, Hero raises to $9.50, JoshhhM calls $6.50

Turn: ($23.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $10.50, JoshhhM calls $10.50

River: ($44.25, 2 players)
Hero

[nutsinho]

what do u expect him to fold when u bet like 40% of pot on turn

[AnTman_69]

I see your point. But I wanted to set up a plausible riv shove with the smallish turn bet. Are you suggesting bet turn bigger, or give up on turn and be done.

[Andypandy]

I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.

[minSim]

Is it of any real importance to our flop decision that we have the K ?

(i.e. that we still have outs when called when we barrel the turn, as we always do......or something)

[elipsesjeff]

If you bet so small on the turn to set up a river shove why wouldn't you then shove the river? I don't think he will fold the ace up until this river spot but I think shoving the river is your best chance to get him to fold. Your line reeks of a draw and given that I don't know how often he's folding an ace.

[WildBobAA]

Trying to bluff people off top pair at 50NL is usually not good.

[ATOTHEC101]

I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.

[Carroters]

I think that turn bet not only sets up a river shove - but also sets up a river call from him since it looks so damn weak.

Good line to take if you have the nuts though!

[bjsaust]

You dont need to win every hand.

[thizzSantaCruz]

He isn't folding an ace. Your range is probably very unbalanced here. Do you ever flat AT out of the BB? Your really only repping 55 and draws. I fold the flop.

[AnTman_69]

He isn't folding an ace. Your range is probably very unbalanced here. Do you ever flat AT out of the BB? Your really only repping 55 and draws. I fold the flop.

Mm yeah your right. I need to think more about my perceived range, without leveling myself to hard. Thanx

[Marshall28]

I like to float this flop. You have added equity w/ your gutter, plus your K/Q will be clean the times he holds a small pair.

It's really hard to get credit for anything when you raise an A high board, that's the reason I prefer to do it light for value and try to stay away from it as a bluff unless I know my opponent is a first level thinker.

[meeloche]

He isn't folding an ace. Your range is probably very unbalanced here. Do you ever flat AT out of the BB? Your really only repping 55 and draws. I fold the flop.

Mm yeah your right. I need to think more about my perceived range, without leveling myself to hard. Thanx

I agree with thiz.

Realize when you're thinking about your perceived range different players will have different perceived ranges for you. Don't just assume they think the same way as you do.

[pocketfours]

If we were lawyers and this would be a courtroom you would be disbarred for pulling off this kind of shit.

Of course you have to shove the river, wat!!??? If you didn't shove the river then this will be a very good candidate for misplayed HOTY 2008.

[pocketfours]

I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.

This is horrible advice.

[kettleofish]

Of course you have to shove the river, wat!!??? If you didn't shove the river then this will be a very good candidate for misplayed HOTY 2008.

So bad it would've travelled back in time?

[Marshall28]

LOL I love P4's posts.

[Andypandy]

I don't mind ur craise if u have a good image. I would just give up on turn tough.

This is horrible advice.

Why is the 7 of spades a good card to keep on fireing to? U advocate either bluffing all three streets or just fold the flop? I see lots of thin calldowns with stubborn TP's, especially when the flushdraw missed.

[mcatdog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think P4s is saying that if you think he'll make a stubborn call-down with top pair then you shouldn't take this line on the flop and turn. There are better lines to take if all you want to do is push him off a crap pair.

[Andypandy]

Agreed. But i feel that if u have a clean image u can make them fold everything else than TP and better, and that combined with ur gutshot and backdraw flushdraw makes it an ok play, no?

[pocketfours]

Agreed. But i feel that if u have a clean image u can make them fold everything else than TP and better, and that combined with ur gutshot and backdraw flushdraw makes it an ok play, no?

The reason I want OP to shove is that he claims to have made the small sweeten pot type bet on the turn in order to bluff the river. So he fully knowingly makes a bet that will fold no hand. Now if he doesn't go ahead and bluff the river, then that bet will turn into a huge 21BB donation. I don't like the c/r+bet+shove line here, but at least it's an attempt at a winning play, c/r+bet small+check is just beyond ridiculous.

This is just a really bad flop for a c/r bluff period. Doesn't matter what our image is.

[Andypandy]

I agree if u bet turn, u must push river.