Am I too nitty?

[chrisa]

Hand 1: Villain just sat down so no reads. I don't see myself beating many hands.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($9.60)
SB ($10.25)
BB ($2.34)
UTG ($1.77)
Hero (MP) ($12)
CO ($14.88)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J, K
UTG calls $0.10, Hero bets $0.45, 1 fold, Button calls $0.45, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.15) 4, K, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, Button raises to $3.55, Hero folds

Total pot: $2.75 | Rake: $0.10


Hand 2: Different villain. Villain is loose aggressive but hasn't gotten out of line, maybe a couple of times PF but hasn't done too much post flop so no real reads again.

Cake Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Cake-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

SB ($6.93)
BB ($6.85)
UTG ($11.15)
MP ($2.41)
Hero (CO) ($10.35)
Button ($17.68)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, J
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, Button bets $0.55, SB calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.85) J, 10, 3 (3 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $1, Button raises to $4.85, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $3.95 | Rake: $0.15

I think the folds were the right choices but I'm not 100% convinced. Feel free to let me have it.

[RoyalProdigy]

They are both marginal hands. I don''t think you were to nitty. I'm not nitty enough. I've been frigen blowin buy ins at 2nl on coin flips lately. lol its really not funny, its sad. I just hate 2nl. But i'm never gonna leave unless i play good and stop rolling the dice and just work these mutha fruckers. oh well. but no i definatly do not think you were to nitty

[okiman]

I'm a full ring nit, so take it with a grain of salt, but:

hand 1: You're well behind his range here. Good fold.

hand 2: Again, you're crushed by his range, why call the huge preflop raise oop? You got a great flop and still can't profitably continue here.

[JR9477]

Why is KJo a raise, yet AJo a limp?

[chrisa]

Why is KJo a raise, yet AJo a limp?

Had a few MSN convos running and wasn't concentrating properly. Closed MSN after I realised my mistake though.

[HarleyGuy13]

OK I've played around with PokerStove and I really want to know what range you all are talking about? I just put in the op's hand, the board and played with % for villian and I don't see him behind much. I'm just curious as to what I am missing. Please explain what ranges you all are thinking. I want to learn!

And please don't tell me his range is only AA,KK or AK.

[Stacks]

OK I've played around with PokerStove and I really want to know what range you all are talking about? I just put in the op's hand, the board and played with % for villian and I don't see him behind much. I'm just curious as to what I am missing. Please explain what ranges you all are thinking. I want to learn!

And please don't tell me his range is only AA,KK or AK.

Put up some of your pokerstove examples imo. That way your ranges can be corrected if they are wrong.

[Illfavor]

HarleyGuy, in these examples I think you would do well to ask yourself "what hands do this that I beat?" H1...??? H2...maybe KQ? Since we don't really have reads we probably can't assume he's a super aggressive and would be better off in general giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[HarleyGuy13]

Unfortionately I am at work so I can't take the time to post examples. I take it though by the fact that XxStacksxX replied that I need to evaluate things and assume you are correct that Op is behind.

OK I've played around with PokerStove and I really want to know what range you all are talking about? I just put in the op's hand, the board and played with % for villian and I don't see him behind much. I'm just curious as to what I am missing. Please explain what ranges you all are thinking. I want to learn!

And please don't tell me his range is only AA,KK or AK.

no, there's also 44, 88 and two clubs

[Stacks]

Well I think hand 1 is okay, but hand 2 was played poorly preflop which put us in this gay/awkward spot postflop.

I'm not saying your wrong Harley. I'm simply wanting to see how you went about your range analysis. You could be correct because tbh I didn't do any range analysis myself here. However, if you are simply putting a % into Pokerstove for his range, then you are likely to be incorrect. You might not have done that, but that was my interpretation of your previous post.

[HarleyGuy13]

Stacks that is basically what I did tbh. I played around with others as well but % was the majority of it.

[Airles™]

I know it sucks folding with decent TP hands but unless we have a read that villain is overplaying a weaker hand or c/r's with air, then folding is right play.

[Stacks]

Stacks that is basically what I did tbh. I played around with others as well but % was the majority of it.

If for instance he calls preflop with 7% of hands, we run into a pretty big problem is we continue to let him have that range throughout the entire hand. For one, Pokerstove's 7% hand range isn't going to be the same 7% he plays. He may be more willing to play one hand over another, in which we would miss that hand if we used Pokerstove's "generic" hand ranges.

Second, villain is rarely ever going to play his entire starting range the same way throughout a hand. Every decision made, whether by him or us, is going to affect his hand range, and ours, in some manner. When we bet this flop he is going to fold a portion of his starting range, call a portion, and raise a portion. It would be incorrect to say that just because he calls x% of hands preflop, that he still has that same x% of hands when he raises this flop.

So instead of giving him a precentage preflop, such as 7%, and assuming it stays that way on every street, we must take the starting range we gave him and manipulate it in a way that is indicative of the actions he took.

[HarleyGuy13]

Thanks Stacks makes sense.

[okiman]

OK I've played around with PokerStove and I really want to know what range you all are talking about? I just put in the op's hand, the board and played with % for villian and I don't see him behind much. I'm just curious as to what I am missing. Please explain what ranges you all are thinking. I want to learn!

And please don't tell me his range is only AA,KK or AK.

I edited this for my original range, this leaves us well short of what we need to continue.

Board: 4c Kd 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 11.993% 11.77% 00.22% 2564 48.00 { KsJd }
Hand 1: 88.007% 87.79% 00.22% 19120 48.00 { KK+, 88, 44, AKs, AcQc, AKo }

[Stacks]

Okiman, you think he is raising this flop with 99-QQ?

[okiman]

Okiman, you think he is raising this flop with 99-QQ?

No, I don't, but I was trying to push the range to see how far we had to go to get proper equity. That's what we'd need to assume to get it (and assume he'd always push with it). I've edited my post to include my original range.

[surviva316]

in hand one, this is JUST on the edge of hands i'm generally mucking preflop in this situation. Because it's six max i might raise it if it's suited, otherwise it's a "win a small pot, lose a big pot" type of hand if you get called by someone who has position on you.
imho, hand two could not be played worse. not nitty, just mindlessly. obviously you already know that you shouldn't limp this hand, as played ...well i haven't been in the situation since back when i had no clue so i don't really know if the limp call here is right, but i'm ditching it 'cause your OOP w an already marginal hand facing a raise. NEVER donking this. i assume you did this as protection against the SD, but i'd let him come to me, and i'm probably only c/c'ing at that