100NL, i bet my top set and get raised on the river,huh?

[pokerfan]

villain is 24/17/2 over 120 hands, basically an unknown player. His lousy river minraise sounds to me like he really got it. Just tell me your river line? b/c, b/f or c/c, c/f ?

No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($200.50)
BB ($207.05)
UTG ($114.85)
UTG+1 ($45.75)
Hero (MP1) ($100)
MP2 ($100)
CO ($113.70)
Button ($118.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q, Q
2 folds, Hero bets $4, 1 fold, CO calls $4, 3 folds

Flop: ($9.50) 4, 8, J (2 players)
Hero bets $6.50, CO calls $6.50

Turn: ($22.50) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $14, CO calls $14

River: ($50.50) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $21, CO raises $42, Hero ?

can't fold, the pot odds are like wtf
he can always show up with something retarded like a slowplayed set that he just decided to raise for no reason on the river
I mean, come on, you're not good here 15.8% of the time?

you can c/c river to induce a bluff from 67 or hearts
but I'm shocked how you can play 120 hands with the guy and he's "unknown"

[sk8r_daniel]

He may have alot of 2 pair/set type hands still, so I think folding is out of the question.

Your river bet sizing makes your hand seem really weak, like an overpair or top pair type hand so he may be trying to squeeze an extra buck out of you.

Pretty random spot....

[pokerfan]

can't fold, the pot odds are like wtf

I'm shocked how you can play 120 hands with the guy and he's "unknown"

man, I was 14 tabling last night. 120 hands of history means nothing when thinking about these HUD stats.

[sk8r_daniel]

I wonder if shoving would show a profit...
Thoughts on river bet sizing:
Say we bet $35 and he ships it, ez fold?

[Deanglow]

never check/call this river whatever you do

[pokerfan]

I wonder if shoving would show a profit...
Thoughts on river bet sizing:
Say we bet $35 and he ships it, ez fold?

shoving is pretty bad imo. A half-pot bet is probably all right.
Of course we fold to a shove unless he is a crazy monkey.

[ATOTHEC101]

your looking at j10,1010,108/109s unfortunately, I fold river. I also bet river stronger to avoid the mind fuck that is whether you induced or not plus at the same time getting more value from 2 pair, sets etc, $30.

[ATOTHEC101]

Also shoving is solidly terrible.

[sk8r_daniel]

Against a thinking player the shove is terrible.
Against donkies who cant fold a set/2pair with a big pot it could be profitable.

your looking at j10,1010,108/109s unfortunately, I fold river. I also bet river stronger to avoid the mind fuck that is whether you induced or not plus at the same time getting more value from 2 pair, sets etc, $30.

i always end up calling the river anyways, i mean wtf top set and pot odds, but +1. He's never gonna raise less than a straight imo unless you induced, which totally sucks, so just bet a few more dollars. Only hand he's turning into a bluff is missed hearts btw.

[Fnord]

Uhhh... I look this up too.

[pokerfan]

Against a thinking player the shove is terrible.
Against donkies who cant fold a set/2pair with a big pot it could be profitable.

this is not a live game. River raise in online nitty games is leaning towards a real hand.

[pokerfan]

ya,i chose to bet a little less with the intention of calling of course. I'm just thinking that an optimal river bet is around 1/2 pot.
he hit river straight after peeling the flop with AcTc, WTF

[sk8r_daniel]

Against a thinking player the shove is terrible.
Against donkies who cant fold a set/2pair with a big pot it could be profitable.

this is not a live game. River raise in online nitty games is leaning towards a real hand.

Yeah I know, im just making the point that like every situation, it depends on the player.

[Deanglow]

Against a thinking player the shove is terrible.
Against donkies who cant fold a set/2pair with a big pot it could be profitable.

this is not a live game. River raise in online nitty games is leaning towards a real hand.

Dude I would be 5x as likely to fold this if it was against a standard live player.

[pokerfan]

Against a thinking player the shove is terrible.
Against donkies who cant fold a set/2pair with a big pot it could be profitable.

this is not a live game. River raise in online nitty games is leaning towards a real hand.

Dude I would be 5x as likely to fold this if it was against a standard live player.

ya, live players are way more passive. We can make a big river bet & fold to a raise vs terrible live donks who'd call with all one pair hands. :P What i'm saying is that we dont have to vbet bigger on such a scary board against standard online players.