Some 200nl hands

[bjsaust]

Hand 1

Deep v's fish. 61/7 with 56% donk bet. Normally I'd raise flop, but this deep I felt it was better to call instead. When it hits and he pots again I'm now worried by the fact I only have the 2nd nut flush, but this guys pretty terrible.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($426.12)
SB ($216.23)
UTG ($34.20)
BB ($522.92)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, J
1 fold, Hero bets $6, SB calls $5, BB calls $4

Flop: ($18) A, 3, 6 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $17.10, Hero calls $17.10, 1 fold

Turn: ($52.20) Q (2 players)
BB bets $50.20, Hero calls $50.20

River: ($152.60) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $100


Hand 2

UTG Donker here has been very passive and a large number of mined hands has him at only 3% donk bet which is why I only flatted his bet on the flop, BB is a fair bit more aggressive though, so I feel much more comfortable calling his raise after UTG folds. On turn I think theres enough draws and enough hands in his 'value' range I'm ahead of to just get it in.


No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($200)
SB ($200)
Hero (MP) ($221.75)
UTG ($481.12)
BB ($184.60)
Button ($212.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, K
UTG calls $2, Hero bets $8, 3 folds, BB calls $6, UTG calls $6

Flop: ($25) 4, 8, 4 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $11.87, Hero calls $11.87, BB raises $35.72, 1 fold, Hero calls $23.85

Turn: ($108.31) Q (2 players)
BB bets $52.65, Hero raises $131.63


Hand 3

UTG is the same UTG as prev hand. He has 30% fold to cbet so I didnt really want to iso him without good TP potential, and table wasnt overly aggressive at this point. On flop its checked to me with gutshot + backdoor FD so I figure a bet should be good here a lot?


No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($228.85)
BB ($275.23)
Hero (MP) ($324.54)
UTG ($349.47)
SB ($234.36)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7, 6
UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, BB bets $8, UTG calls $8, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($31) 4, 8, 2 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $20

[daven]

hand 1:
I probably raise the flop cos i doubt he's 3-betting much. Turn donk is interesting, but this is two pair way more often than the nut flush. If you're not happy stacking 2nd nut then the flop call was probably bad. Calling here is likely to generate more value from the hand, but it means you won't be playing for stacks.

As played pot the river and call a shove.

hand 2:
Pre-flop the iso seems a little small. Why not to $10?
Flop is a great way to look like a FD, now jam the turn all good. NH.

hand 3:
i don't like the call pre-flop cos a decent player will raise co/bu to $12 and then you have to fold. Iso is better cos UTG will fold a lot and if called you'll be able to check a lot of flops behind AND get value from your big hands. I don't like the flop bet much. dunno, seems to waste potential value if UTG range is 22-99 then you're getting called. Sure , you look a lot like a set so you'll get a bunch of folds so it will win you the pot, but... You would make this same bet with 88 for value so I'm not sure.

at first I thought hand 1 was well-played
but then again if you raise turn he's probably going to STILL CALL with the naked king or an ace
so I think if we want to get stacks in we should go 150 on the turn, shove river

it doesn't matter that our line looks really strong

hand 2 I need to know BB's stats because if he's overall tight this is a fold on the flop because a raise multi-way is a shitton of strength
if he's a multitabling reg I think his range is like huge draws and 44/88
he's NOT raising TT here

hand 3 despite what daven says I'm like never folding if I limp here unless someone isoraises like a huge amount like $20
and of course I'm fucking firing the flop jesus tittyfucking christ
like 90% of the profit in calling raises here is wrestling the pot away from the PFR
don't mess with the UTG, though, if he stays in the pot you should give up

[bjsaust]

I dont get what you're saying in hand 3. You mean I'm likely just throwing chips away? I dont have much in the way of potential value to waste, thats sort of the point, my value here comes from stealing more than my pot equity.

I mean if UTG calls your flop bet give up
against the PFR you still have options

[bjsaust]

Thanks iopq. Hand 1 is hard for me to judge because I know results.

Daven, I think my call on flop is fine in hand 1 (happy to be convinced otherwise) but the reason I get called on the flop is not that I could have second best hand, but because I'm worried that his pair/2P hands are more likely to c/c when I hit (I dont think he'll fold any piece) and his hands that pick up a FD to make more of a block bet to set a price rather than pot it. His action on the turn made me reconsider his range and get more concerned.

Hand 2 BB stats were 32/22 with 25% raise cbet over smallish sample. Definitely not particularly tight, but sample wasn't large enough to make concrete reads.

[bjsaust]

Sorry, that comment was directed to Daven, you replied before I did. Your comments on hand 3 I agreed with.

I agree that against donks flatting is good because they can't handread, and will pay you off when you hit
but it works out when you think he'll check to you on the turn if you raise because then you're setting your price for two streets (obv check turn if you miss)
if he's just going to call flop and donk turn raising accomplishes nothing because we don't have fold equity

hand 2 is just a sick spot
I don't have enough experience with multiway pots to provide good advice, but his line is just so incredibly strong multiway

[Luke999]

I feel hand 3 your going to have to triple barrel. I don't mind checking it back multi way tbh.

[griffey24]

Hand 1
- He's donk leading into the PFR, it's waaay more likely that his range now is two pair or sets on the flop than the K high FD. Raise this turn allll day, especially after he shows so much strength almost potting it. He's not gonna just fold a set, that's for sure.

Hand 2
-std

Hand 3
-Raise preflop for sure. As played, it's fine.

[Marshall28]

Hand 1 : Why are you afraid? You have 2nd nut flush don't you? ...I disagree w/ raising the turn though, I find that these fish like to use the pot button to bluff and if you raise the turn, you give him the opportunity to fold all his random airballs and weak made hands that he turned into bluffs. I expect him to bluff the river super often for most of his stack, so calling turn w/ the plan of calling all rivers is most +ev IMO. Now that he checked turn I think betting 2/3 pot like you did is fine, and I think betting bigger is good too.

Hand 2: This one's fine, though if UTG had called the flop raise you should probably fold.

Hand 3: Don't overlimp then overcall 76s, it's such a fishy play. Either isolate the limper or just fold, it depends on the type of fish whether or not isolating him is good in this spot w/ this hand. As played, clearly you should bet the flop and likely every turn, and a lot of rivers also.

[bjsaust]

Hand 1, I guess I didnt give all the info. A PSB donk on the flop from this player isnt unusual, but this was the first time of many that he'd followed up with one on the turn which is why I was scared. In any case all of you guys are correct, he had 2P and I missed a lot of value.


Hand 2: For sure, if UTG had called the raise, or if BB had folded and UTG kept firing I probably need to fold. Weird one, he folded to the shove with about 45-50 behind. A8 maybe?

Hand 3: I dont think it was profitable to isolate with 76s v's this guy. He hadnt folded to an isolation yet (I'd been doing it a fair bit as you'd imagine) and had yet to fold to a cbet when I had isolated. Maybe just fold PF then, but it seemed 150bb deep like a hand I really wanted to see a flop v's him with. Everyone folded.

[bjsaust]

I should mention, I get really nervous playing deep. I dont mind getting coolered 100bb deep, but it seems to really concern me once I get 150+ bb deep. I've started just leaving tables if a decent reg is deep with me, especially if he has position, but in hand 1 and 3 it was the fish who was deep with me so stuck around, but still felt a bit uncomfortable.

[Galapogos]

Hand 3: I dont think it was profitable to isolate with 76s v's this guy. He hadnt folded to an isolation yet (I'd been doing it a fair bit as you'd imagine) and had yet to fold to a cbet when I had isolated.

You don't want him to fold to your isolations. You are better than him and you're in position. And if you're afraid he doesn't fold to cbets, why do you allow the pot to get multiway and then still fire a flop bet? Now your bluff has to be larger than if it were just you and the fish and you have to worry about more people that don't want to fold.

I should mention, I get really nervous playing deep. I dont mind getting coolered 100bb deep, but it seems to really concern me once I get 150+ bb deep. I've started just leaving tables if a decent reg is deep with me, especially if he has position, but in hand 1 and 3 it was the fish who was deep with me so stuck around, but still felt a bit uncomfortable.

I play pretty poorly deep, but if you learn how to own people by playing off their fear of losing 150bb+ then you just have hudge fold equity and you can make them fold big hands by shoving your entire stack in

just don't try it vs. me, I still get it in light 200bb deep :/

[daven]

Daven, I think my call on flop is fine in hand 1 (happy to be convinced otherwise) but the reason I get called on the flop is not that I could have second best hand, but because I'm worried that his pair/2P hands are more likely to c/c when I hit (I dont think he'll fold any piece) and his hands that pick up a FD to make more of a block bet to set a price rather than pot it. His action on the turn made me reconsider his range and get more concerned.

Yeah, multi-way i think you're right that calling is better cos you look more like a confused ace that way and this means that your FD is already well disguised.
Turn is all about a decision of whether you think you can get this to be a hand for stacks. If you think so, then raise turn. As played you can bet river $135 for the same result.

re hand 3 - i'm glad i posted my thoughts and then compared them to those of everyone else. Sounds like pre-flop bad = consensus, but then not stealing the pot on the flop woule be even worse (I see that now!)