3/6 - my hands feel big.. but I'm not so sure

[griffey24]

Hand 1
-villains in this hand are both regs
-CO in this hand is quasi passive, 20/14/1.7 type
- BTN is 'eric ontilt', a good stars reg, who i've had a few hands with this session. He generally calls most of my 3bets, and today I've shown down AKhh in a 3bet pot and won another uncontested
-Btn runs 24/19/2.69 and for sure knows that nobody has 6x on the river to check to him

$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($441.00)
Hero (UTG+1) ($694.80)
CO ($638.00)
BTN ($1526.35)
SB ($1577.35)
BB ($612.90)

Pre-flop: ($9, 6 players) Hero is UTG+1
1 fold, Hero raises to $18, CO calls $18, BTN calls $18, SB calls $15, 1 fold

Flop: ($78, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $50, CO calls $50, BTN calls $50, SB folds

Turn: ($228, 3 players)
Hero bets $160, CO calls $160, BTN calls $160

River: ($708, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets $1,298.35, Hero to call $466?


Hand 2
-Limped pot almost 200bb deep
-Villain is 'gogols nose' another good stars reg, who views me as a bluffer for sure
-he has called me down light several times in the past, and caught me in elaborate barreling bluffs. I've toned it down a bit lately but he doesn't know that probably
-villain runs 22/20/3.04

$3/$6 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($680.00)
UTG+1 ($253.00)
CO ($300.00)
BTN ($600.00)
SB ($1381.20)
Hero (BB) ($1105.90)
[CO posted $6]

Pre-flop: ($15, 6 players) Hero is BB
UTG calls $6, UTG+1 calls $6, CO checks, 1 fold, SB calls $3, Hero checks

Flop: ($30, 5 players)
SB bets $30, Hero raises to $90, 3 folds, SB raises to $222, Hero ??

[Marshall28]

1st hand I think is really read dependent. BTN overcalled two streets so if anybody can have 6x in his range it would likely be him. If he's good, he shouldn't really ever have a set, making the strongest hand that's not a straight he can hold 2 pair.. I could see somebody good overcalling A4hh or A5hh in this situation. You can't even beat those. All you beat is 9T turned into a bluff, I think you gotta fold this one.

Hand 2... There's nothing you can do but toss it IMO. 200bb deep against a good player w/ a 1 card open ender and a T high flush draw. It's a very high reverse implied odds spot. He won't put any more money in the pot the times you hit your hand unless he hits a better one. It's a limped pot, you have ten high and less than 1/10th of your stack invested, just let it go.

[kmind]

Shouldn't hand 2 just be a flat to the initial flop bet? Seems like he or someone else is going to likely 3bet here.

Hand 1 is sick...

[Marshall28]

Shouldn't hand 2 just be a flat to the initial flop bet?

I think this is dependent on your overall strategy, I know that Grif likes to splash around a lot and would be raising here w/ many relatively weaker hands here, so not to raise one w/ this much equity I think wouldn't be in his best interest.

For other players flatting may be the better play, I know I'd always raise this here though.

[Irisheyes]

Hand 1 I think that given the CO has hearts a lot (taking away combos of xhxh) and eric will check back Ahxh sometimes a lot of his range is actually 6x and you should fold.

[meeloche]

1) Yeah i guess I'd fold vs him

2) Seems like a call ip no?

[meeloche]

I mean call to the 3 bet not the flop bet.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Hand 1: I think I'd call!!!???

Hand 2: I'd call, obv you have no FE and I'm pretty sure there is no way you have over 45% equity.

[meeloche]

Hand 1: I think I'd call!!!???

I was close to saying this as well but I think he has a lot of Ax two pairs in his range. Agree disagree?

[zook]

Hand 1: he's repping so few combos (6h4h, Ah5h, maybe a few other A5s/64s/76s/86s combos) that I don't think I can fold.

Hand 2: I'm not sure I can do it but I think this is a fold. I don't think your implied odds are that great and you certainly have reverse implied odds issues.

[Alexos]

1: Soooo close, but I think it's a call. Would be cool evaluate all combinations of hands he can have here, but im too lazy and i suppose its pretty close anyways. So many things missed here and we're getting a nice price. I don't think he's shoving 2 pairs here but I guess he could ??

2: There is no way I'm raising this on the flop. As played you have huge reverse implied odds but he made it so small that we call IP and get owned some % of the time. edit: naw just fold..

[griffey24]

Ok good to see some comments, especially for hand 2.

Seems like nobody advocates a shove at all, and most think its close between call/fold and lean towards fold even. Maybe it was a 'feel' thing, but I ended up shoving and he tank folded. Its probably bad though.

[Renton]

1) why wouldn't he shove every better hand than ours here? i fold

2) i think the first raise is optimal/correct and i fold now. its really easy to say that you wouldn't have raised now that you see he has 3bet, but the truth is that he never 3bets lightly against us and often calls. on top of that our hand sucks as far as implied odds / deep stacks go.

[Alexos]

1) why wouldn't he shove every better hand than ours here? i fold

b/c a lot of ppl are bad/scary board/don't think they'll get called with worse... so they'll often check back better 2p here

2) i think the first raise is optimal/correct and i fold now. its really easy to say that you wouldn't have raised now that you see he has 3bet, but the truth is that he never 3bets lightly against us and often calls. on top of that our hand sucks as far as implied odds / deep stacks go.

im not sure why you think raising is correct/optimal, care to explain? i assume most ppls donking range into 4 is very strong on this board in a limped pot too

[Renton]

i guess i didn't think it was that strong. i didn't really notice it was for full pot and this was 3/6 not 5/10. i still think he could do it with a lot of drawy type hands like 64 and stuff. mainly i just don't fancy calling that much bc we won't have any implied odds, but it could still be correct just because we have the expressed odds to call.

[Vi-Zer0Skill]

if BTN had A4hh, should he shove the turn? could griffey fold AK to a BTN turn shove?

[Marshall28]

Ok good to see some comments, especially for hand 2.

Seems like nobody advocates a shove at all, and most think its close between call/fold and lean towards fold even. Maybe it was a 'feel' thing, but I ended up shoving and he tank folded. Its probably bad though.

Shoving is definitely creative, the only reason I didn't consider it in the first place was because you are basically 200bb deep. The more I think about it though, I think it's probably good. He has to fold any set, and sometimes he'll toss the wheel straight. Probably a good play.

[nutsinho]

hand 1 i think is a close fold

hand 2 i believe raising the flop is not the correct strategy. as played i think id call

[Marshall28]

hand 2 i believe raising the flop is not the correct strategy. as played i think id call

What if we had the NFD? Or K high FD? do those become raises?

[Alexos]

calling is underrated!! ..id def call the lead with the nfd as well

[Ash256]

In hand 1, doesnt the Ac polarise our range quite well, making riv a fold because we're not going to c/f the good side of a polarised range?