Convince me that America is the best country on Earth

[spoonitnow]

Or convince me of the opposite.

[jyms]

Tax free poker income, free medical care for all, hockey on TV every night throughout the winter. When we travel our flag is loved and we are treated fair and happily by strangers. Tim Hortons.


Oh wait, that's us.

[Halv]

On paper Norway is def up there: free health care, decent public education, 1/3 people graduate from college/uni, <1 murders pr 100k people pr year, GPD pr capita $94k, #1 on Human Development Index list.

On the downside: no casinos, no tax-free online poker.

edit: on the upside, no french-canadians.

[jyms]

Only two weeks vacation a year is std to start, so Norway and those countries have us there. Education is pretty good up here too, I forgot to mention.

[JKDS]

america has a nobel prize winning president leading the country

[Halv]

Given to him by Norway.

[BooG690]

People here listen to and believe everything Fox News says. Our health care system is fucked but somehow people believe it is the best in the world. Same thing goes for our education system. We get taxed on just about everything...unless you're rich, then you get to keep your money (HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE?). Citizens of this country are upset when their leader wins a Nobel Peace Prize (I don't give a fuck if you agree on if he earned it...our commander-in-chief received it). A small percentage of the population run the country and we're all getting fucked (though most people don't realize it or refuse to believe it because most people are dumbasses).

END

[boost]

for all the faults of this country Im not sure Id want to permanently live anywhere else.. But I feel at home here, so it doesnt really say much for it being the best country.

As for canada/scandland I would love those countries, but I hate the cold.

[d0zer]

America is the best country on earth if you're wealthy.

Everyone's gunna have their own definition of 'best' though, and usually the criteria is cherry-picked to support their patriotism.

If you start using metrics like social mobility, GDP per capita, life expectancy, infant mortality or whatever, every country falls short in some category...

[jyms]

We use the metric system, just like the rest of the world, except....

Why are you holding on to that Imperial shit anyway?

[Stacks]

I want to move to Canada. Like seriously, at least for a little while (year or so).

[Jack Sawyer]

LOL Imperial Units!

[Ragnar4]

This is an either-or logical fallacy. The problem is that America is not the best country in the world, and nor is it the exact opposite. To argue either would be pure folly, there's no way we're worse than Zimbabwe, and no way we're better than Norway.

IMO as long as we're better than Canada, and Mexico, Fuck the rest of em. lolol.

[KoRnholio]

IMO as long as we're better than Canada, and Mexico, Fuck the rest of em. lolol.

lol, well you are halfway there

[BankItDrew]

Tax free poker income

100% incorrect.

[Ragnar4]

IMO as long as we're better than Canada, and Mexico, Fuck the rest of em. lolol.

lol, well you are halfway there

Who would have thought Mexico would be such a tough nut to crack?

[Warpe]

13th

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

[Ztech]

Having a need to be conviced either way is pretty lame and IMO shows a complete lack of ability to make up your own mind based on your own experiences.

I find it humorous that certain posters feel a need to "stir the pot", especially when these posters are supposed to be our "leaders".

[boost]

Having a need to be conviced either way is pretty lame and IMO shows a complete lack of ability to make up your own mind based on your own experiences.

I find it humorous that certain posters feel a need to "stir the pot", especially when these posters are supposed to be our "leaders".

please go away with your first level thinking, its really getting old.

[Warpe]

Having a need to be conviced either way is pretty lame and IMO shows a complete lack of ability to make up your own mind based on your own experiences.

You're missing OP's intent and the point of the thread.

I find it humorous that certain posters feel a need to "stir the pot", especially when these posters are supposed to be our "leaders".

At least OP has an open mind and is open to discussion/debate. Being unable to consider that your country may come up short on some and perhaps many metrics is just blind patriotism/nationalism and irrational.

[mcatdog]

We will never have the highest standard of living in the world as long as we spend 5% of GDP on the military. Depending on your point of view, that money is either being wasted, or else it's something that has to be done and Canada, Europe, Japan, Korea etc. are mostly freeloading. Either way, other countries get to spend that 5% on things that directly improve their quality of life.

[sarbox68]

Give me your definition of "best," and I'll recommend a country that comes closest...

Srsly tho, we have to be doing something right in the innovation dept if you give any credence to Nobel prizes... We cleaned up on the science awards (9 of the 11 nominees were American), took the peace prize, and are favorites for the economics awards. A system that generously rewards ambition and talent (primarily with money...) still goes a long way in attracting the best and the brightest.

All that being said, the question is obv a ridiculous one. But spoon already knows that...

And Jyms -- I froze my f-kin nuts off last time I was in Quebec. Don't you people ever turn on the heat up there???

[spoonitnow]

america has a nobel prize winning president leading the country

I laughed out loud, this was good.

This is an either-or logical fallacy.

That's not how I meant it. I meant the opposite of being the best in the world as not being the best in the world, but I think the word opposite might have been a little too ambiguous.

Having a need to be conviced either way is pretty lame and IMO shows a complete lack of ability to make up your own mind based on your own experiences.

I find it humorous that certain posters feel a need to "stir the pot", especially when these posters are supposed to be our "leaders".

lol, I'm not even going to start.

[wesrman]

Tax free poker income, free medical care for all, hockey on TV every night throughout the winter. When we travel our flag is loved and we are treated fair and happily by strangers. Tim Hortons.


Oh wait, that's us.

QFT.

[XTR1000]

Given to him by Norway.

haha win

[XTR1000]

also, 45% of our motorways dont have a speed limit, its one of the cleanest places you can find on this planet and we speak a funny accent

[boost]

mmm no speed limit..

[sarbox68]

mmm no speed limit..

what good is no speed limit when my f-kin freeway doesn't move faster than 10 miles an hour on most days...

some people 'round here need to find a better place to live and move there!

[jyms]

And Jyms -- I froze my f-kin nuts off last time I was in Quebec. Don't you people ever turn on the heat up there???

Yea, even Canada hates Quebec. Other than Montreal there relly is no reason for it. Even then, most are Habs fans and that is brutal. At least they are pationite about hockey, and being a homey for your team could be worse, hell I"ma homey and that puts me right up ther with Detroit Lions, Tigers fans, LA Clippers fans or a New Orleans Saints fan. Oh wait, I am a Saints fan

[sarbox68]

Oh wait, I am a Saints fan

You sir, must have the patience of...

I just go to Raiders games and throw sh!t.

[Ztech]

Ok. Since apparently all you wish to discuss is frivolous BS.

Then this is why the US is best.

[Stacks]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at the people from France and Netherlands please?

Also, Ztech, your from TN, your obviously ignorant and sleeping with your sister. Your thoughts have no merit here.

[kiwiMark]

More people from fucking Belarus than from New Zealand? Are you for being serious.

[CoccoBill]

Ok. Since apparently all you wish to discuss is frivolous BS.

Then this is why the US is best.

You mean which countries have the most people that prefer easy money over honest labor? Do you curse the liberal conspiracy when your aces get cracked?

[wufwugy]

Ok. Since apparently all you wish to discuss is frivolous BS.

Then this is why the US is best.

[a500lbgorilla]

The free market said so.

[Halv]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at the people from France and Netherlands please?

Netherlands have legalized mj, that's gotta count for something.

[a500lbgorilla]

yah but bitches love the illegalized mj.

[sarbox68]

I can haz Indian FTR???!?

[dthorne04]

Ztech has to be a level.

[Ztech]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at the people from France and Netherlands please?

Also, Ztech, your from TN, your obviously ignorant and sleeping with your sister. Your thoughts have no merit here.

LOLz. I live with 15 miles of the highest population of PhD per capita in the country, yeah ignorant. Hilarous.
And only the folks in the hills do thier sisters, um Knoxville is in a valley.....doh!

[sarbox68]

I can haz Indian FTR???!?

[BooG690]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at the people from France and Netherlands please?

Also, Ztech, your from TN, your obviously ignorant and sleeping with your sister. Your thoughts have no merit here.

LOLz. I live with 15 miles of the highest population of PhD per capita in the country, yeah ignorant. Hilarous.
And only the folks in the hills do thier sisters, um Knoxville is in a valley.....doh!

So you live next to smart people...so that makes you smart? It seems to most people on FTR that you're a dumbass that is blindly in love with his country...but whatever, that's cool. You're from the South and that's expected.

[wufwugy]

So you live next to smart people...so that makes you smart? It seems to most people on FTR that you're a dumbass that is blindly in love with his country...but whatever, that's cool. You're from the South and that's expected.

You are a stupid fascist socialist communist librul nazi alien atheist fag

[flomo]

Really? Do you people think we are not the best?

how about a roungd house kick to the face with these pants.

[daven]

More people from fucking Belarus than from New Zealand? Are you for being serious.

new zealanders suck at freerolls

[dranger7070]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at the people from France and Netherlands please?

Also, Ztech, your from TN, your obviously ignorant and sleeping with your sister. Your thoughts have no merit here.

LOLz. I live with 15 miles of the highest population of PhD per capita in the country, yeah ignorant. Hilarous.
And only the folks in the hills do thier sisters, um Knoxville is in a valley.....doh!

So you live next to smart people...so that makes you smart? It seems to most people on FTR that you're a dumbass that is blindly in love with his country...but whatever, that's cool. You're from the South and that's expected.

BooG, lets move to Argentina and be happy with LOLcheap cost of living, and 14 year old prostitutes imo.

[dranger7070]

Double post

[spoonitnow]

Having a need to be conviced either way is pretty lame and IMO shows a complete lack of ability to make up your own mind based on your own experiences.

Making a decision based only off of my own experiences would be retarded, though it explains a lot about your posts.

[flush76]

Every country has its positives and negatives, some have better health care, others better taxation and fiscal policies, and others have better social aid programs. I guess it all depends on what you consider important.
Let's just say that America, Canada, most of Europe and some other places are better places than having to live in warzones or communist countries. Sometimes we forget how good we actually have it, compared to people who are afraid to even speak freely. I'm not saying we just have to blindly accept what goes on, but maybe sometimes we should take a step back and see the forest, rather than just the trees.

[jyms]

Other than the fact that the forum is almost 30% American, and Obama got given a controversial Nobel Prize that even most of his own people don't think he did anything for, I don't hear any positives about the US. I don't think it's the worst place to live but blind love just because you were born there can't be very eye opening. It certainly is making Spoons choices much easier.

[BooG690]

Really? Do you people think we are not the best?

how about a roungd house kick to the face with these pants.

I've changed my mind. God bless America.

Let's just say that America, Canada, most of Europe and some other places are better places than having to live in warzones or communist countries. Sometimes we forget how good we actually have it, compared to people who are afraid to even speak freely. I'm not saying we just have to blindly accept what goes on, but maybe sometimes we should take a step back and see the forest, rather than just the trees.

I like how we had to be compared to warzones and communist countries. Like, "Well, we're better than THAT." I think you've totally missed the point of this thread. We're comparing America to other countries that are great...not some fucking poor ass country.

[mcatdog]

Other than the fact that the forum is almost 30% American, and Obama got given a controversial Nobel Prize that even most of his own people don't think he did anything for, I don't hear any positives about the US.

You don't see any positives about the US, really? I think it's hard to argue the US has the best university system in the world(only the UK is even close), and related to that, many of the brightest people from all over the world come here and way more innovation happens here than anywhere else. I think if you have the talent and drive to be very successful then the US is the best country to live in, but if you are failing at life then it definitely sucks for you a lot more here than in most rich countries.

[XTR1000]

Other than the fact that the forum is almost 30% American, and Obama got given a controversial Nobel Prize that even most of his own people don't think he did anything for, I don't hear any positives about the US.

I think it's hard to argue the US has the best university system in the world

Not sure about that, but your schools suck

way more innovation happens here than anywhere else.

Japan ftw!

[/url]

[flush76]

I'm sorry but I must disagree with the concept that the US has the best university sytem in the world.

Most innovation nowadays cannot really be attributed to a sole country as usually they are collaborative efforts.

Those fucking poor ass countries, as you so nicely put it, fund a lot of the western economies, indirectly, but that is a discussion for another time and place.

I did not miss the point of the thread, I was just pointing out that sometimes our problems can seem minor by comparison, and if you want to make a completely objective analysis then you can't ignore half of the world. My apologies if I have disturbed anyone.

[jyms]

Other than the fact that the forum is almost 30% American, and Obama got given a controversial Nobel Prize that even most of his own people don't think he did anything for, I don't hear any positives about the US.

You don't see any positives about the US, really? I think it's hard to argue the US has the best university system in the world(only the UK is even close), and related to that, many of the brightest people from all over the world come here and way more innovation happens here than anywhere else. I think if you have the talent and drive to be very successful then the US is the best country to live in, but if you are failing at life then it definitely sucks for you a lot more here than in most rich countries.

No I didn't mean to imply that. I am a Canadian. I just meant that I find it funny that of all the Americans on this forum, that nobody seems to be posting about it's virtues. Other than the patriotism and people taking offense to the fact, claiming that the US is the greatest country in the world and comparing it to war torn and third orld counties seems a little far reaching.

[mcatdog]

I'm sorry but I must disagree with the concept that the US has the best university sytem in the world.

Almost all of the best universities in the world are in the US by most measures.
http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm

Our K-12 schools do suck though. I wish we could apply the same concepts that work so well with our universities to K-12 schools and healthcare where we're lagging behind, but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.

[bigred]

I wish we could apply the same concepts that work so well with our universities to K-12 schools and healthcare where we're lagging behind, but it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.

Sooooooo have all the Asian kids pay for tuition at our high schools?

[CoccoBill]

Almost all of the best universities in the world are in the US by most measures.
http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm

The fact that some of the best universities are in the US is quite far from the "best university system in the world". On average you're behind many countries, and if the comparison is extended to the whole education system you're not even in the top 20.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...nt#2006_survey

[CoccoBill]

It might also be worth noting, that the US is currently ranked as the 13th best country to live in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_D...ex#2009_report

[Ztech]

And so I think we have found the real intent of this thread. Just another platform to bash the US. If this was not the case then why not have a thread with the same title and Canada or any other European country? It seems that the US is the measuring stick that all others wish to compare themselves to. That must mean the US is doing something right.

I do not believe the US does everything the best, there are many many flaws. But I agree that it depends on what is most important to an individual.

I find it extremely interesting that most of you wish to call into question my patriotism, specifically that I am a nationalist/blind patriot.Where was that the point of the thread?
IMO You are the individuals that keep FTR from becoming more than it is.

[Ztech]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at the people from France and Netherlands please?

Also, Ztech, your from TN, your obviously ignorant and sleeping with your sister. Your thoughts have no merit here.

LOLz. I live with 15 miles of the highest population of PhD per capita in the country, yeah ignorant. Hilarous.
And only the folks in the hills do thier sisters, um Knoxville is in a valley.....doh!

So you live next to smart people...so that makes you smart? It seems to most people on FTR that you're a dumbass that is blindly in love with his country...but whatever, that's cool. You're from the South and that's expected.

Thank you for approving of my right to love my country. I appreciate it.

And as for you last comment. I think it says alot about you, judging and making assumptions about someone based upon thier geographical location. Very insightful and mature.

[Ztech]

Having a need to be conviced either way is pretty lame and IMO shows a complete lack of ability to make up your own mind based on your own experiences.

Making a decision based only off of my own experiences would be retarded, though it explains a lot about your posts.

I think asking this question in an open forum for anyone to comment is retarded, especially if you really planned on using the input to make a decision.

Earlier I said what I think the real intent of this thread was. Which should also explain why I posted the response I did.

[Monty3038]

On a totally non-politcal front, it is one country on earth where you can visit a lot of different climates, all within the same country... from desert to high mountain to river basin to flatland to etc... we have a wide variety of geography.

[dranger7070]

that we haz to resort to geography to win

[flush76]

Besides great geography and knowing how to make it appealing to tourists, which not all countries seem to know how to do, I don't think there are many countries that have a similar level of aid programs to help people improve their lives.
From educational grants, to the welfare system, to grants for opening up small businesses, the list is endless. I did some research recently for someone on the subject and it was purely mind boggling how many tools are available.

[dranger7070]

Welfare and social security = two of the biggest fails in American economics imo.

[mcatdog]

Almost all of the best universities in the world are in the US by most measures.
http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm

The fact that some of the best universities are in the US is quite far from the "best university system in the world". On average you're behind many countries, and if the comparison is extended to the whole education system you're not even in the top 20.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...nt#2006_survey

How is a ranking of 15-year-olds' performance an extension "to the whole education system."

[CoccoBill]

How is a ranking of 15-year-olds' performance an extension "to the whole education system."

Well I think the overall performance of students is a better metric for the performance of an educational system, rather than saying that 50 of your 5000 universities are good.

[spoonitnow]

On a totally non-politcal front, it is one country on earth where you can visit a lot of different climates, all within the same country... from desert to high mountain to river basin to flatland to etc... we have a wide variety of geography.

I think Chile is similar but I could be wrong.

[sarbox68]

How is a ranking of 15-year-olds' performance an extension "to the whole education system."

Well I think the overall performance of students is a better metric for the performance of an educational system, rather than saying that 50 of your 5000 universities are good.

You're mixing apples and oranges...
1. There's really no way to argue that the US still has the best universities, proven in part by the highest level of education specific immigration. And with the a robust multi-tiered approach (community college v. several tiers of subsidized state schools v. private colleges, etc.) you've got something that's more accessible to a wider range of abilies.
2. K-12 and university are two totally different metrics. One is mandatory, they other is accessible based primarily on merit (yeah, I know there are economic implications, but a discussion on grants v. subsidies v. affirmative action, etc is for a totally different post.) Bottom line, everyone has to go to K-12, only people who want to go to college...
3. And the yes, our K-12 systems sucks ass in a lot of ways. However, part of that is because of the complexity of the supporting communities. For example, California has passed mandatory bilingual education requirements. Great idea, but it's not uncommon for a lot of LAUSD K-12 schools to have up to 10 or more distinct languages represented in any given classroom -- frequently w/ parents who speak little to no english, are potentially illiterate and have no ability to contribute to their child's education. Homogeneity is a wonderful thing in mandatory education. I'd be curious to see how many large, distinct cultural and langauge centers (not counting endemic dialects) Norway has to worry about... It's also because of powerful and schlerotic unionis and inefficient and ineffective government administration.

It's also because somewhere along the way we picked up this idea that we're entitled to something, and education is just too much like hard work. Funny how 1st generation immigrant families with virtually no economic advantage and a whole raft of cultural disadvantages are still able to gain first rate educations from our public systems and exponentially advance their family's standing in a single generation....

And yeah, Japan kicks everyone's ass on Patents. Unfortunately, they've also had an economy that's been in the absolute sh!tter 30 of the past 50 years -- and are staring down a socioeconomic cataclysm of graying population, phenomenally expensive entitlements and GDP growth that doesn't even come close to being able to pay for it. I don't think I'd want to be young and living in Japan....

My folks emigrated here from the UK when I was a kid, and haven't regretted it. If you're ambitious, capable and driven, I will still argue that the US represents one of the best environments for individual return on investment... and it's one of the reasons we still continue to attract high levels of immigration (both legal and illegal) even with a fractured social safety net.

On the other hand, if you're not as capable (or potentially less ambitious and driven) and need to rely more on that social safety net, this isn't one of the best places to be.

At the end of the day, every country's got a mix of both of those types to some balance or other. I agree that an ambitious, capable and driven person who is also enlightened will understand the need to balance the community as a whole... and how best to do that is the real debate.

[wufwugy]

The US is both a great country and a crappy country. We're great because of melting pot, a leader in aesthetics and innovation, center of wealth, and relatively large freedoms. We're crappy because we're greedy and stupid, and we're pushing our country out of the first world, and into the second world

We will never formally achieve second world status, but we already have elements of second world, and are charging straight into further income disparity

Normally I would make a huge ass post about the pros and cons of living in US, but I'm just really tired of those right now

[spoonitnow]

Okay this thread is now for Ztech to tell us some crazy stories because I bet he's got them.

[sarbox68]

The US is both a great country and a crappy country. We're great because of melting pot, a leader in aesthetics and innovation, center of wealth, and relatively large freedoms. We're crappy because we're greedy and stupid, and we're pushing our country out of the first world, and into the second world

We will never formally achieve second world status, but we already have elements of second world, and are charging straight into further income disparity

Normally I would make a huge ass post about the pros and cons of living in US, but I'm just really tired of those right now

Yo Wuf... you one smart dude. Def buy you a beer if we ever happen to be in the same place at the same time.

[wufwugy]

haha maybe then you can tell me what khlystian is