1/2 rush. 4bet KK DEEP.

[pocketfours]

Awful spot, help me out! Villain is unknown.

4bet sizing? Should I have checked the turn or bet flop? Is this easy call and c/f blank riv?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) ($957.15)
Button ($828.80)
SB ($686.35)
BB ($328.65)
UTG ($537.15)
MP ($555.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K
2 folds, Hero bets $7, Button raises to $24, 2 folds, Hero raises to $82, Button calls $58

Flop: ($167) 5, J, A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($167) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $90, Button raises to $210, Hero? $654 behind.

[Renton]

I think bet folding the flop for 72-82 make this a lot easier to play and likely is most +ev.

It looks like you have to call the turn and fold unimproved.

[griffey24]

I think I'd probably bet the flop, since I'd likely bet this flop with most of my air range and checking this flop kind of makes your hand faceup somewhat... which I'd want to avoid deep, OOP against a seemingly aggro opponent.

If I checked this flop I'd probably just check the turn again.

As played, meh kinda sucks. Don't think fold is too bad, but I'd probably peel one in practice.

[IV Geoffrey]

i think i like betting flop more

[IowaSkinsFan]

Id check both streets. There is very little suckout equity on both streets and very little value.

[meeloche]

I would play it same as you p4's except I would c/c turn reeval river. I just don't' see much value in betting turn.

[pocketfours]

I like a check in hindsight. I just wasn't expecting a raise and thought that I get to choose the price of the river, charge draws, keep the lead and protect my hand (although it obviously doesn't need much protection).

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K
2 folds, Hero bets $7, Button raises to $24, 2 folds, Hero raises to $82, Button calls $58

Flop: ($167) 5, J, A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

Turn: ($167) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $90, Button raises to $210, Hero raises to $875.15 (All-In)

He only needs to fold 36,9% for this to be profitable (assuming I'm against a set of nines when I get called). I realize I'm repping 99, slowplayed set or that I didn't cbet a flushdraw, but I think that since my bet looks really weak he's going to be fos here a large amount.

When comparing this line to b/c turn and c/c river we need to consider the possibility that he would raise AQ like this but fold to a shove. If he is weak and unexperienced he might fold even better, but I guess that's wishful thinking.

[darkconcept]

I would play it same as you p4's except I would c/c turn reeval river. I just don't' see much value in betting turn.

what exactly is suckout equity? betting flop is fairly std.

[Renton]

i think a 36.9 bluff frequency is obscenely high

[pocketfours]

i think a 36.9 bluff frequency is obscenely high

Perhaps, but if he only folds his bluffs, then c/c+c/c is so so much better here anyway. I just think he wouldn't put me on a bluff here too much and would do this with any ace thinking he's ahead of KK. Now why on earth would he think I'm betshoving KK?

Some average rush player who I have never seen before simply isn't good enough to call this without the nuts or close to it and he almost never has it.

[Ravageur]

I don't mind how you played this. Obviously in hindsight you wish you'd checked the turn, but I don't think we're getting raised very often at all here and like you said, we don't mind building the pot this deep with pair +nfd. I think now we have to call and c/fold when we brick because this is JJJ a ton. I don't think people at these stakes are bluffing in 4-bet pots much so I don't think he's folding as much as you think in these spots.

[Renton]

k i guess i meant I think a 36.9 fold frequency is obscenely high.

I just don't think most people are capable of moves in this spot when theres not even history (rush). I'd give him a range weighted toward 99 and small flushes, and not expect him ever to fold those.

[pocketfours]

k i guess i meant I think a 36.9 fold frequency is obscenely high.

I just don't think most people are capable of moves in this spot when theres not even history (rush). I'd give him a range weighted toward 99 and small flushes, and not expect him ever to fold those.

People get greedy when they realize how much money they have already invested.

There's the kind of player who wouldn't bluff the flop, because he assumes I'm never c/folding, but now he sees that I'm probably weak with likely KK and he can get me off it. Then there's the guy who thinks he is owning me here with AQ. Both of these will bet the river as well but fold turn to a shove.

I really just want to argue in favor of this play for sake of discussion. I still haven't made up my mind whether I like it or not. I don't think it's a bad shove against someone random, I'm just not sure if it's my best line. I'm also trying to think whether call + c/c is better than call + c/f.

I think all in all if we b/c here and c/f river we have misplayed the hand.

I'm pretty sure I don't like the turn bet anymore, but even that can't be horrible.