new roles for future games

[rong]

Amnesiac cop/seer: acts like normal seer, but doesn't get results, they are instead passed on to another villager. Could be one or several villagers.

Serial killer: solo team, gets a kill every other night just like wolves, immune to wolf kill and maybe kills wolf when attacked. Interesting dynamic in the game for the wolves to know a players role, need said player dead but be unable to kill him and have to get him lynched.

Gunsmith: needs to be a mafia game, not werewolf. Gunsmith has a,lookup each night and will know if said player has a gun. Needs to have mafia, vigilante, cop(seer), FBI agent(hunts serial killer) and/or army vet(takes out mafia member on death) role as well to make role worthwhile.

Maybe a few more but on phone and got bored of typing.

[JKDS]

SK is boring and we've done it before.

Gunsmith can work for a normal ww game. You just play with flavor so that a subset of players is guilty or whatever.

Amnesic would have been in my next spectacular game along with other seer variations, but i just dont have time for another.

Speaking of, other variations...ive been meaning to be mean and do like an 'insane seer' who got the opposite result. Also random seer, just to troll.

I cant stand angel and protection type roles. They always seem either broken overpowered or completely useless. No middle ground.

Win conditions dont work well for our forum either. Theres a bunch of cool roles like "You win the game when you are lynched", but our games are generally long and infrequent. So i dont like a potential quick loss or sudden stop because the village lynched the wrong guy. Similarly, things like my stalker role suck. (romeo/juliet was cool imo though).

[rong]

SK can be spiced up by adjusting win condition to that of all villagers being dead. This means the wolves have to find him, can't nom him and have to get him lynched.

[rong]

Or maybe SK wins if either all wolves are dead or all villagers are dead. So village has to find SK before they lynch the wolves. Also, maybe SK can't kill wolves, but if he picks one he knows their role so has to try to get them lynched.

Basically I thought it would be interesting to have a non-villager be put in a position where they have to get someone lynched.

[JKDS]

I didnt read what you said about the SK in the OP at all, and just assumed it was like what im typically aware of what an SK is.

I changed my mind, solid role

[wufwugy]

I like that idea for SK. I have a different nifty role idea I'll use for the next game I mod. JKDS, could you explain what you think a protection type role should look like? I feel like that's a really big area of that which is able to be done with specials, so denying it entirely would be a detriment, but I do agree that they can way too easily get overpowered. I think if I were to mod a standard game with seer and angel, it would involve the angel only being able to protect the seer once or something to that effect

[Shotglass]

I think if I were to mod a standard game with seer and angel, it would involve the angel only being able to protect the seer once or something to that effect

Or maybe has to protect a different person each night:
seer
random player
seer
and so on

[JKDS]

IMO, angel + seer without any qualifiers is broken.

One variation ive seen...is Jailkeeper + Seer. The jailkeeper has protective powers...but also blocks roles. So if you jailkeep a seer, they cant die...but cant look up either. Meanwhile if you jailkeep a wolf, and they sent the kill, no kill occurs.

However, that has proven over many games to be even MORE overpowered than just Angel+Seer.

I theorize that its due to the wolf interaction. So maybe an angel that also roleblocks...but doesnt roleblock wolves? I havent seen that, but it gives a way to keep an angel in the game...without forcing the wolves to find him just to avoid an autoloss.

Other options of course
1) Xshot: only works x times
2) Shotty's idea
3) Percent chance of success --> in general, i dont like this. too much room for corruption thus too much room for doubt. Also, unlucky sequences of success/failures would defeat the purpose of the limiter anyway...making it either nonexistant or unmaking the role.

Also, it should be standard that the angel CANT protect themselves. This is just to balance endgames. Like, if bigred was an unkillable angel last game, then gg gizmo autoloses. (theres counterclaiming stuff that can happen...but its hard and still unbalanced for wolves).

Other alternatives that are way different
1) Bodyguard: Dies instead of the person they protect
2) Hider: Seer/angel combo that dies if their target is killed, or if their target is a wolf. Its limited to providing villager info instead of wolves.
3) CPR Doctor: Angel, but if no one kills his target...he does instead.

The only thing that should be avoided at all costs is an unkillable angel, and an unkillable seer. There must be ways outside of leveling to kill these roles.

[wufwugy]

I like the bodyguard. Also weakened sorcerer; something like my idea for sorcerer except limited to one or two kills. Or maybe not kills, but a special being able to target based on his idea of who the wolves target is a good dynamic

[TLR]

SK: I dont like this role, I think that with the amount of players we have 2 kills per night makes the game a crpashoot since most games will be over is 5 days or so

Angel: I really like the angel role but I agree it should be balanced and limited in some way - there are a couple of ways to do it IMO
1. Give the angel a protection power that can only be used 3 times in the game
2. Angel cannot protect the same person twice
3. Angel can only get his save power if specific condition happens during the day (for example Angel gets 2-3 votes cast against him, Angel guess correctly who will be nommed etc..)

I would like so see a seer role that Identified if the player is a regular villager or a special but does not know the special power

An interesting twist will be if the village votes both for lynch and for protection during the day - the villager with most protected votes cannot die during the night, this can be used in a Jailkeeper fashion to avoid a case when the village always protects the seer/angel

I dont like Vig role

Another nice variation to have in a 3 way team is someone who is a member of both baddie teams, maybe with some sort of different win conditions (he only wins if he is the last person standing or something similar)

[wufwugy]

Another nice variation to have in a 3 way team is someone who is a member of both baddie teams, maybe with some sort of different win conditions (he only wins if he is the last person standing or something similar)

dude that could be awesome as shit

[JKDS]

Oh man, i love that idea of a baddy on both teams. It has the potential for so much troll

[jyms]

Oh the fear and suspicion amongst the teams. I think it would be a great role if you didn't know it existed. I think it needs to maybe a be a 50% chance there is a troll to lower suspicion.

Maybe having a turncoat inside the other baddie group and not the village could be cool. So the turncoat if he is the loan survivor joins the other baddies.

Have

[crazzvette]

How about adding some sort of sleeper ?
-He's a villager at begging with no powers .
-When a special role is killed , he assumes that role .
-When the next special role dies , he has a choice to be that or stay what he was ?
-When he dies , maybe someone he chooses becomes the sleeper unless he picks a baddy , then there for he dies with his role .

Just a thought , lol .

[OngBonga]

All villagers = vig. The first night would be amazing.

[bigred]

[jackvance]

Oh man, i love that idea of a baddy on both teams. It has the potential for so much troll

This sounds like fun, only problem is that one person has such a cooler role than everyone else..

[bigred]

I was thinking about a new format last night that could be interesting if done right.

Two opposing villages and a werewolf team. There are two wolves in each village. Village A wolves can chat offline with each other and Village B wolves can chat offline with each other. A wolves and B wolves can send one message to each other a night via the mod.

I don't know what the village A vs B win conditions would be but we need to emphasize something that has a winner but also encourages coordination between the two villages to defeat the wolves.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[bigred]

Oh, each village can have a a few unique specials.

[bikes]

pure ww. no vig no seer no angel,

team wolf
team village.

go go go

[JKDS]

@bikes: Mr. Spectacularrr is surprisingly a fan

@bigred: So much potential, but really needs to be ironed out. I feel that forcing people to remember who is party of what village or whatever would be annoying though.

@Wolf on both teams: I should have clarified. This is horribly imbalanced. The wolf can influence, and in all likelihood control, too large a number of players. In the worst case for the village, he mislynches left and right until his win condition is met. No one can kill him outside of a vig due to too much influence. In the best case, the village gets lucky and kills a wolf somehow, which somehow also leads back to this doublewolf guy.

So while troll, its bad imo.

[bigred]

So I think you'd literally list out who was in each village in the game post but yeah, wolves have a major advantage with smaller numbers. It's a cool idea but it needs more thought.

[wufwugy]

It may be impossible to have two different villages with differing winning conditions because then they require enough special information about teammates that defeats the purpose of the game.

Two groups of one team of wolves that can't talk to each other is a good idea. It could be used when the mod wants a larger baddy team but can't make it too large. There is probably, however, a sweet spot of baddy size team between 20-30%. If it gets too big, even if it's multiple baddy teams, the village isn't able to get bandwagons going that well

[Hoopy]

pure ww. no vig no seer no angel,

team wolf
team village.

go go go

Would be fun to try that.

I think having a fully powered seer + angel combo is too strong unless we have loads of people.

Vig should be a 1 shot role imo. Or something like if you hit a wolf get another shot, if you hit a villager lose the power.

[wufwugy]

we should do no specials in a game of all regs. long days. i figure lack of specials only appeals to the hardcores

[JKDS]

inb4 I out as a secret special anyway and never get lynched

[wufwugy]

it'll be so ridiculous you'll out as the "googinator" and your special power is that if you dont say "goog" five times in each post, the village loses automatically

[BooG690]

Hardcore WW. No perks. I'd like that.

[crazzvette]

Just wandering if and when weeeee will be playing this again ? Was fun but to be honest , i still don't totally get the concept of the game . Get them before they get you and reading the posts and trying to figure who is who was harder then it seemed . Still fun some what thou .