25nl: Weird line by aggro Russian reg

[The Bean Counter]

All advice appreciated here - no question that I got myself into a mess.

Pre: sb is an aggro shortie 37/33 with 16% 3bet over ~50 hands. bb is the aggro russian reg. I figure bb is calling a pretty narrow range here of JJ-QQ/AK. I come along to take a flop and reassess based on texture. Does anybody like a 4bet in this spot?

Flop: not too happy with the Russian's bet and guess this is the place to make a disciplined fold if I'm going with my original pre-flop range, unless we think villain stabs on such a low, dry flop?

Turn as played: I check back turn as I think villain is either giving up or c/jamming. I'm worried about much less than half the deck coming out on the turn too, but I guess I should b/f in any case for protection?

River as played: my bet is pretty pointless on reflection as it looks like villain is giving up or nitting up QQ for pot control (if I go with flop read). Given chk/jam however, do we think there is anywhere near enough bluffs in villain's range in this spot? I figure most regs will lead out at these stakes if they were planning on chk/jamming turn and I look capped at pretty much what I'm holding by the river, so it looks like a good spot to bluff if he's confident I can find a fold. The line just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for value either and the fact villain is Russian really makes me want to call, although what's the point if I figured he's pretty much QQ only on the flop?


MP ($11.05)
CO ($25)
Hero (Button) ($50.57)
SB ($12.08)
BB ($25)
UTG ($36.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.62, SB raises to $1.50, BB calls $1.25, Hero calls $0.88

Flop: ($4.50) 7, 3, 2 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2.40, Hero calls $2.40, 1 fold

Turn: ($9.30) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($9.30) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.44, BB raises to $21.10 (All-In), Hero???

[Pelion]

What are your stats/reads on bb and after how many hands? It worries me that you haven't written any stats/reads, and have instead used "Russian" like it's in some way indicative of a playstyle.

[WeldPhaser]

What are your stats/reads on bb and after how many hands? It worries me that you haven't written any stats/reads, and have instead used "Russian" like it's in some way indicative of a playstyle.

Lol. Agree. Comp is dOwn so on phone. Have to do work on paper. Also like to know bb s stats and why ya think his range is so narrow.

[OngBonga]

How we getting on against a range of 22 33 77?

[abelardx]

SB's 3bet was a mini raise. I think the fish do this with a wide variety of hands so they can bomb the flop and run a stop n go at least hu. Not a bad strategy against tags who play fit or fold in '3bet' pots really.

I don't think you can give BB a tight range here. Preflop is only 6 bbs and he might very well have anything playable just because he's in position with the fish.

I like betting close to pot and taking the bet til raised line. If an aggro player raises me on the flop I'd 3bet all in.

As played, folding is consistent with your line and read. So I'd do that. I hope villain has A4 or 55 here but no need to find out.

[OngBonga]

I don't think this is a weird line. This is standard fish line with a flopped set turned boat. OMG flopped set I has the nuts, OMFG turned boat let villain see free river and hope he flushes, goddam no river heart oh well I hope he has AA... ALLLLLLL INNNNNN.

I expect him to have a boat somewhere near 100% of the time here.

fwiw I consider "Russian" to be a viable read.

[BorisTheSpider]

fwiw I consider "Russian" to be a viable read.

Aside from the hand itself, I agree with this. Scandinavian/Dutch works pretty well too.

[WeldPhaser]

Aside from the hand itself, I agree with this. Scandinavian/Dutch works pretty well too.

The only player s on lock to give Me trouble. Were a handful of eastern European s. So if I were to take the read to hear he'd have more than a boat here. Our bet doesn't look too much like a v bet on this board. Battery dying ill bb

[The Bean Counter]

What are your stats/reads on bb and after how many hands? It worries me that you haven't written any stats/reads, and have instead used "Russian" like it's in some way indicative of a playstyle.

Ha, I figured nearly everybody would understand this. The decent Russian regs play a VERY similar style in my experience: standard TAG pre-flop and aggressive/creative post-flop i.e. they don't like to fold but can take weird aggro lines for value or with air balls if they sense weakness. They tend to be quite big winners too and this guy is no exception as he's up 6BI in just over 1k hands.

If you prefer more specific stats then I can provide them (although I'll only provide info quickly available on my HUD).

...why ya think his range is so narrow.

How we getting on against a range of 22 33 77?

I don't think you can give BB a tight range here. Preflop is only 6 bbs and he might very well have anything playable just because he's in position with the fish.

I'd expect only a terrible player to cold call a 3bet in the bb with the original raiser to act without strong value i.e. not including mining. KK/AA could be there, but this is nearly always QQ/AK in my experience, especially as I doubt villain would expect me to do anything other than call or fold here an absurdly high percentage of the time given I'm opening the button wide (and I'm probably folding more often than not given sb and bb showing strength).

Point about the small 3bet is interesting though, but I'd lean more towards a reg ignoring the size and more the impact of a 3bet in itself.

I like betting close to pot and taking the bet til raised line. If an aggro player raises me on the flop I'd 3bet all in.

Hmm, I don't like this on such a dry board when villain is either giving up or chk/jamming the turn in all likelihood. We just don't need to go so big.

[griffey24]

I'd rather bet the turn than bet the river. What are you hoping to get value from now that you weren't getting value from on the turn?

Turn might get c/c's from AQ/AK at least sometimes.

[The Bean Counter]

I'd rather bet the turn than bet the river. What are you hoping to get value from now that you weren't getting value from on the turn?

Turn might get c/c's from AQ/AK at least sometimes.

Presume you prefer a turn b/f turn rather than b/call? How about sizing? $3.80-ish?

I only like the river bet against this guy if I'm trying to induce, which I wasn't at the time. I was looking for value for some weird-played lower pps or high card bluff catchers that figure I have enough busted draws in there (although I doubt villain bets the flop with the over-cards, plus I shoudln't add in pps that I'm ahead of if I don't have them in villain's range pre).

Not a lot of response at all to the questions in the op, which is disappointing. River c/jams are something that come up a lot at 50nl in my experience and are worth most of the BC thinking through in advance of getting to that stake.

[griffey24]

It really depends on reads. In my games I would be snap b/c, and in that case I like a small bet like $3.80 or something.

If you are hoping to b/f, then I wouldn't want to induce with a smaller sizing so I'd make it $6-7ish. Same goes for river here, if I want to b/f I would bet $6-7ish and it also looks more bluffy when draws brick.

[BorisTheSpider]

I don't like a 4bet, I think it way overreps your hand into 2 players but that by calling after BB you somewhat disguise the strength of your holding. Why do you assign BB such a tight preflop range? It somewhat depends what he thinks of the SB, but I think he can have a much wider range than you say he can.

I don't see how you can fold the flop, especially not to a Russian. I think he'd more likely C/R a value
hand that crushes you, the lead seems kind of unorthodox and I don't like that I feel confused by it, but
I can't see folding.

I don't like your turn check, you let him keep the initiative so now you don't know what to do on the river,
as you said your hand is also vulnerable to being outdrawn, I don't like "protection" as a reason for betting,
but I do think you can bet for value and get protection as a consequence. If he jams over a turn bet I think you can comfortably fold, if he calls I think the river is not an easy decision.

As played, after the turn check you're very merged to mid-strength hands that can't take a ton of heat, so against an aggressive player I'd be inclined to check behind on the river, since from how you've described him it seems he might be capable of putting a lot of pressure on if he determines that you have a mid-strength holding.

I also feel like his line makes no sense for value, but I'm forever levelling myself thinking that.

He can't really check the river with anything nutted can he? You've shown no inclination to play a big pot so far throughout the hand, so I find in very unlikely he doesn't just lead the river to try and get one more
street of value from the nuts.

If you called it off, and he showed up with better than a pair here, I'd definitely not want to be playing too many pots with this guy, and I'd want to be watching him to see what I could learn from pots he plays with other people.

[BorisTheSpider]

I'd expect only a terrible player to cold call a 3bet in the bb with the original raiser to act without strong value i.e. not including mining. KK/AA could be there, but this is nearly always QQ/AK in my experience, especially as I doubt villain would expect me to do anything other than call or fold here an absurdly high percentage of the time given I'm opening the button wide (and I'm probably folding more often than not given sb and bb showing strength).

I disagree with this. Given it's a BTN open, I don't think BB is too worried about a repop from the original raiser, more likely he feels like he's going to play a pot in position against the SB, or at worst a 3-way pot with the BTN calling for odds with a wide range because of the small size of the SBs 3bet.

The SB is plainly an aggro-fish, so BB will be inclined to play a pot in position against him whenever he gets the chance, I know SBs sitting short might discourage that to some extent, but I still think you've got to factor it in when assigning BB a range.

[jackvance]

Bet the turn. In fact why didn't you?