[10NL] AKo...Multi way 3bet pot

[Cobra_1878]

BB - Looking fairly fishy, 53/18/17 (3bet) over 17 hands w/ AF of 4.

BU - TAG reg, 13/11/2 (3bet) over 136 hands.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): $11.09
CO: $10.00
BTN: $10.27
SB: $11.63
BB: $9.94
UTG: $1.05

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has K A

fold, Hero raises to $0.35, fold, BTN raises to $1.00, fold, BB calls $0.90, Hero calls $0.65

Flop: ($3.05, 3 players) J Q 9
BB bets $1.50, Hero ???

Looking back I wonder if there is a case for folding pre against TAG reg's 3bet? Feels really nitty but I think we are only ever up against QQ+, AK.

As played, I think it's a fold. Calling seems terrible given BU's range and the flop texture and shoving seems only slightly better as I only see BU folding AK, everything else in his range he is stacking off on this flop with.

[Savy]

Since when is 13/12/2 a TAG reg? That's really nitty.

[abelardx]

I like a fold here definitely. Basically we have a weak draw, not sure how many outs. Almost certainly someone else has a made hand. We're not last to act. The 3betting pfr hasn't acted yet. Yep just get out of the way and save the chips for a better spot.

edit:

4bet/getting-it-in is possible too, especially with the BB's preflop call as overlay. But I like how you played it. When I flat here oop I'm usually giving up unless I hit anyway.

I wouldn't place too much faith in stats over 136 hands esp 3bet stats. Obv he's tighter but you can't conclude he has only QQ+ and AK here. Have you seen BTN flat anyone's raise? If not, if he always takes the initiative when he plays a hand, then I like 4bet/getting-it-in a lot more.

Shoving here would be a big mistake. This is an action flop, there's no real fold equity after BB bets, and we probably have at most 7 outs when called.

[Cobra_1878]

Since when is 13/12/2 a TAG reg? That's really nitty.

We all have different opinions. To me, he is tight/aggressive and plays like a reg.

EDIT - Thanks for input on hand as well.

[BorisTheSpider]

Looking back I wonder if there is a case for folding pre against TAG reg's 3bet? Feels really nitty but I think we are only ever up against QQ+, AK.

If it were heads up, I'd agree - there's certainly a case for just folding when you get 3bet by a nit who only 3bets 2%, but once the fish calls, I don't really think you can fold - what you can do is:

- 4bet, with the distinctly enticing possibility that you make the nit fold better (like QQ) and the fish call with worse.
- Call and re-evaluate postflop.

As played, I think it's a fold. Calling seems terrible given BU's range and the flop texture and shoving seems only slightly better as I only see BU folding AK, everything else in his range he is stacking off on this flop with.

I'd actually worry less about the btn here and more about what the fish is leading into two players with. Your equity is pretty shit. However, fish also donk for information and they don't think about how many players they are doing it into, board texture or indeed anything else. Heads up with the fish, I'd just raise, but I don't like that too much with the nit behind you.

I think you're probably right, I don't see how you can do much else but fold. I'm tempted to call, because if the nit folds you can re-evaluate the turn and now you're heads up IP with the fish, but if the nit flats behind you (or of course raises) it doesn't look good.

[Savy]

If it were heads up, I'd agree - there's certainly a case for just folding when you get 3bet by a nit who only 3bets 2%, but once the fish calls, I don't really think you can fold - what you can do is:

- 4bet, with the distinctly enticing possibility that you make the nit fold better (like QQ) and the fish call with worse.
- Call and re-evaluate postflop.

4betting is just awful, you realise BTN has a 2% 3bet. Now if we have seen him 3bet lighter or do something strange then maybe but he's just stacking off like all the time with a range that crushes us.

We also aren't going to be winning enough against the fish with a "TAG reg" who has position on the both of us and a stronger range than the both of us. So unless he has some leaks postflop we can abuse like folding too much so we end up IP against a fish a lot then fold.

This flop also is pretty awful for us against a fish.

I'd fold pre then fold flop.

[BorisTheSpider]

4betting is just awful, you realise BTN has a 2% 3bet. Now if we have seen him 3bet lighter or do something strange then maybe but he's just stacking off like all the time with a range that crushes us.

He's 13/12 too. If he 3bets 2% or about [QQ+, AK] then only continues with KK+ that means he folds 2/3 of his 3bet range to a 4bet. We can't know for sure, but that doesn't seem like an unreasonable range a 13/12/2 might stack off with. The fishes "cold call a nits 3bet then call a 4bet OOP" range is going to be weak enough that the chance of ending up IP with AK in a 4bet pot against it is too good to just pass up.

[Savy]

Where is the evidence that he only stacks off with KK+?

The fact that BTN is so tight and BB so loose actually means we don't need to put ourselves in these marginal situations to get position because we end up having position on BB with a strong range quite a lot.

What we should actually do is table select better if we are desperate to get ourselves in situations against fish where we have position.

[The Bean Counter]

I'd fold pre until btn gives me a reason to think he's not a nit. Even if he is QQ/KK, we won't get paid the times we do flop an ace multiway and at least one of them probably have blockers to us flopping anything anyway.

As played, flop is a fold. We have a gutshot and can probably discount our overs, plus the nit is still to act and likely has a set or overpair that will be drooling at the thought of getting it in vs a spaz.