I think I misplayed this hand

[spino1i]

Obviously I made a poor error in calling his all-in, perhaps I shouldnt have minraised back and seen a flop instead, but I thought he was just bullying me around.. I put him on jacks or queens.. I mean who raises 4x BB utg with aces?

So question, is what do I do when reraises me? Obviously I dont want him to put me all in..

***** Hand History for Game 2229575087 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Sunday, June 19, 03:05:41 EDT 2005
Table Table 37091 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: THELASTMAN ( $101.89 )
Seat 3: gianthater ( $48.69 )
Seat 5: evitacove ( $90.1 )
Seat 6: pwhit22 ( $118.1 )
Seat 7: TheBanger ( $109 )
Seat 8: scrub01 ( $93.7 )
Seat 9: cajun_cookin ( $30.25 )
Seat 10: Raphael8633 ( $70.35 )
Seat 2: Kingfish__ ( $101.5 )
TheBanger posts small blind [$0.5].
scrub01 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Kingfish__ [ Ks Kd ]
cajun_cookin folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$4].
stompit has joined the table.
THELASTMAN folds.
Kingfish__ raises [$7].
gianthater folds.
evitacove folds.
pwhit22 folds.
TheBanger folds.
scrub01 folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$6].
Kingfish__ raises [$6].
Raphael8633 is all-In [$60.35]
Kingfish__ calls [$57.35].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, 2s, 5d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6h ]
Kingfish__ shows [ Ks, Kd ] two pairs, kings and fives.
Raphael8633 shows [ Ah, Ad ] two pairs, aces and fives.
Raphael8633 wins $139.2 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and fives.

[Sykedupp]

So question, is what do I do when reraises me? Obviously I dont want him to put me all in.

Eh?

You want him to put you all in all the time here. AK/QQ make this play just as often as AA, so thats a 2/3 chance that he wont have AA... Include the possibility of a stupid fish with 99 TT JJ trying to push you around, and its VERY +EV.

-Chris

[spino1i]

I'd agree with you if this wasnt the 7th time I've been destacked kings to aces at this level. And believe me, I havent had nearly as many all-in preflops that have gone in my favor with kings (a couple KK v QQ.. thats it). The people at 100 NL arent nearly as stupid as those down at 25 and 50 NL..

[Sykedupp]

I'm 99% sure the people at 2000NL would do the same thing and call a push with KK preflop... It's just so hard to put somebody on aces without a ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK ROCK image.


-Chris

[spino1i]

I agree its impossible to laydown kings to aces pre-flop, which is why i always like to see a flop with my kings.. my philisophy is this:

most people wont be willing to go all in with AK or QQ or JJ pre-flop, so by smooth calling them, you can destack them on most boards (or fold in the case of AK and A hitting). And if the guy has AA, and the board has A or a K or QQ or is 3-suited or has QJT or any number of things, there are too many scare cards and you end up laying down kings to aces or badbeating kings over aces. Another hand history of mine where i have kings and laydown to an all in made by aces with too many scare cards on the flop is evidence of this.

[a500lbgorilla]

Don't minreraise with KK preflop, of course go AI.

-'rilla

If you fold KK preflop, you are retarded. Fine call, tough break.

One thing I could comment on:

Dealt to Kingfish__ [ Ks Kd ]
cajun_cookin folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$4].
stompit has joined the table.
THELASTMAN folds.
Kingfish__ raises [$7].
gianthater folds.
evitacove folds.
pwhit22 folds.
TheBanger folds.
scrub01 folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$6].
GO ALL IN HERE

That is all.

[a500lbgorilla]

If you fold KK preflop, you are retarded. Fine call, tough break.

One thing I could comment on:

Dealt to Kingfish__ [ Ks Kd ]
cajun_cookin folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$4].
stompit has joined the table.
THELASTMAN folds.
Kingfish__ raises [$7].
gianthater folds.
evitacove folds.
pwhit22 folds.
TheBanger folds.
scrub01 folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$6].
GO ALL IN HERE

That is all.

An AI there gives JJ QQ and AK a chance to fold.

-'rilla

[michael1123]

Depending on the player, I'd maybe be able to get away from this one. That minreraise to your big raise screams AA. If I minraised him back (which also screams big hand - which is why he pushed), and he shoved, I'd lay that down to a good player.

I may have considered just calling that minreraise for the same reason.

But against your typical $100 NL player, you probably have to call this, since they could be goofy enough to do this with almost every big hand. It still looks suspiciously like AA though.

Also, I think dwarfy's suggested shove would be the worst possible move. May scare out big lesser hands, and since you already should be somewhat concerned about AA, its just goofy.

If you fold KK preflop, you are retarded. Fine call, tough break.

One thing I could comment on:

Dealt to Kingfish__ [ Ks Kd ]
cajun_cookin folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$4].
stompit has joined the table.
THELASTMAN folds.
Kingfish__ raises [$7].
gianthater folds.
evitacove folds.
pwhit22 folds.
TheBanger folds.
scrub01 folds.
Raphael8633 raises [$6].
GO ALL IN HERE

That is all.

An AI there gives JJ QQ and AK a chance to fold.

-'rilla

If he's raised and reraised, and he's a standard $100 NL LaG, he's not folding to an all in here.

But I get your point, I still do more than a minraise here though.

[michael1123]

Whoops, I misread this hand history. I didn't see the first raise the aces guy made. But this makes it even stranger. He raises 4xBB (which I would think was a weaker hand at first), then you minraise, then he minraises back, then you minraise again (!!!), then he goes all in. Minraise mania!

In this case, I'm fine with dwarfy's choice of shoving, if you have a read of a lower pair because of the big opening bet, AND he's shown a tendeny to minraise with other hands (as in, against Lefou, by all means you call here), and that's why you kept minraising.

Normally though, I'm really not for minraising at all, but especially repeatedly preflop with KK. It just becomes amazingly obvious that you have an absolute monster, and a decent player is going to pick up on that and would not have done his shove without AA (and maybe wouldn't have even done the minrereraise), which again means I may have been able to get away from the hand once he shoves. All depends on the player really.

I mean, if he had QQ-TT, do you really think he's going to see your minraise and not either raise more or just call? He's going to minraise you again, tempting you to raise more and providing no incentive for you to fold, and then see you minraise again, still have no fear, and shove?

Also, here is a big big problem that I just noticed:

Obviously I dont want him to put me all in..

...... ?!?!?!?!?! Why the hell did you keep minraising him then?! The only hand you shouldn't want him to put you all in with is AA, and if you suspect he has that, why would you put in the last minraise? Obviously it wasn't to get information, because he shoved and you still called. The only reason your minraising made sense to me was if you were pretty sure he had a smaller pair, but that line completely throws that out the window, making your play completely irrational.

[spino1i]

I'm really not sure what I was doing there now that I think about it.. lol.. I think i was trying to keep the aggression, but that sounds silly

[Element187]

I put him on jacks or queens.. I mean who raises 4x BB utg with aces?

i do everytime. its the same bet i use for any two card worth playing in EP

since its the new rage these days to raise 6x to 8x the BB with aces and kings.. why not disguise it with a 4x raise instead and attempt to get someone with kings or less to put all their chips in the middle ?