Jacks early in SNG

[zilch]

I've had Jacks twice in the last two days very early in a SnG. Both times in late position and both time numerous callers before. In the hand below what's your move? Raise? Call? Fold (if so where's the cut off Q's? K's?)?

***** Hand History for Game 2308318069 *****
NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:13644099 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Monday, July 04, 12:53:36 EDT 2005
Table Table 14246 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: dzilch ( $800 )
Seat 7: YellowGiant ( $800 )
Seat 3: sj_tg ( $800 )
Seat 4: trogler ( $800 )
Seat 5: ducfer2112 ( $800 )
Seat 10: thegibsons ( $800 )
Seat 9: powly ( $800 )
Seat 2: sivraj007 ( $800 )
Seat 6: dwt1216 ( $800 )
Seat 8: okmiss1 ( $800 )
Trny:13644099 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dzilch [ Jc Jd ]
trogler raises [45].
ducfer2112 folds.
dwt1216 calls [45].
YellowGiant calls [45].
okmiss1 calls [45].
powly calls [45].
thegibsons calls [45].
dzilch ???

[DWDuck]

I see two ways of playing this. Either limp for trips, or push. I'd likely go the push route... if you don't get a caller, you pick up about 300 chips. If you do, you're likely either a coinflip (AK, AQ), or dominating (lower pocket pair).

Darkwing

[CrunchyNuts]

I would call and hope for a set or raggy flop, push if either happens or check/fold if it doesn't. In my limited 5+1 experience, I've seen far too many people stick around with A/K/Qx for me to love JJ anymore...unless you're okay with a coinflip (or worse) this early.

[vqc]

Push.

You could push with QQ KK and AA as well, all that happens is that your increasing the chances thatyou pick up the 300 chips, and possibly more.

[elanto]

I wouldnt push...to early on to risk all of my chips, on this situation im raising maybe 120 more or so, if youre re raised all in which is very unlikely youre probably beat (higher PP). If someone calls your raise and an ace hits your probably beat...


-anto

[bair]

i would definitely push here

[DWDuck]

I wouldnt push...to early on to risk all of my chips, on this situation im raising maybe 120 more or so, if youre re raised all in which is very unlikely youre probably beat (higher PP). If someone calls your raise and an ace hits your probably beat...

Ew. The only thing a raise to 120 does is sweeten the pot. Anybody who called the raise to 45 would have to be an idiot to not call your raise. You're offering the initial raiser 8:1 odds, and all subsequent callers after that even better. I think the limp play is far better than this, since at least you stand to lose less. The problem with this (and the limp play) is that with so many other customers, you will never know if a flop hit somebody hard or not.

This appears to be a party SNG... given that, I think a push makes even more sense. You don't have as much time as you do in a Stars SNG to accumulate chips. Use this hand while you have it. Push.

Darkwing

[bair]

the initial raiser obviously doesnt have a made hand, he would have raised much more if he did, most people on party poker are scared to raise big with drawing hands because when they dont hit you are screwed because party poker only starts you with 800 in chips. i think you definitely have the best hand preflop and can probably take down all the chips with a push. and if you dont then its probably a coin flip slightly in your favor.

[fjuanl]

Push. Half the people are probably just calling based on pot odds.

[zilch]

Intresting points thanks.

Here is how the hand above panned out...

dzilch raises [300].
sivraj007 folds.
sj_tg folds.
trogler folds.
dwt1216 folds.
YellowGiant folds.
okmiss1 calls [255].
powly calls [255].
thegibsons is all-In [755]
dzilch folds.
okmiss1 is all-In [500]
powly is all-In [500]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 4s, 7s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Kh ]
okmiss1 shows [ As, Js ] high card ace.
powly shows [ Qh, Ks ] a pair of kings.
thegibsons shows [ Ac, 6s ] high card ace.

here is the hand from yesterday, where I did as the majority say and pushed...

NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:13613786 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, July 03, 10:21:42 EDT 2005
Table Table 35024 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: scrappyjoker ( $1110 )
Seat 6: djvmc ( $345 )
Seat 5: lupo25 ( $1055 )
Seat 9: tortuga222 ( $755 )
Seat 2: PlayerMarc ( $725 )
Seat 1: dzilch ( $665 )
Seat 3: fishkers169 ( $970 )
Seat 7: rsjjcm1 ( $770 )
Seat 8: woosang82 ( $880 )
Seat 4: BALANCE_IS ( $725 )
Trny:13613786 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dzilch [ Jd Jh ]
djvmc calls [15].
rsjjcm1 raises [125].
woosang82 calls [125].
tortuga222 folds.
scrappyjoker calls [125].
dzilch is all-In [665]
PlayerMarc folds.
fishkers169 folds.
BALANCE_IS folds.
lupo25 folds.
djvmc is all-In [330]
rsjjcm1 is all-In [645]
woosang82 folds.
scrappyjoker folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kd, 3s, 8d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
** Dealing River ** [ Js ]
rsjjcm1 shows [ Qd, Qh ] a pair of queens.
dzilch shows [ Jd, Jh ] three of a kind, jacks.
djvmc shows [ Ac, Kc ] a pair of kings.

As you can see it worked out ok in the end, but this suckout was very clear in my mind when the hand posted in the first post came out.

The first hand here shows that Darkwing is right that a raise doesn't push many others out.

On refelction I think that pushing is probably the best play here as it gives a chance to nearly triple up and with the small party stacks there may not be better chances to get a few chips to play with. I think that the decision is different early in a tourn or with deeper stacks.

[TLR]

I would hesitate to push that early in the tournament. You have 6 people in the pot already with two more to act, I think that if you push you will get at least one caller, possible two. With one player you are probably at a coin flip, and with 2 callers you are behind.
I would call and hope for a set

[richie]

My only tip...stop playing 5s at Party!! You pay double the rake (most sites are $5 + .5), and you get no chips to maneuver with.

Play on UB or PS, then you can stick in a 500 raise here, fold if the flop looks like it's shafted you, and still have a four figure chip count.

It's much less of a lottery.