A quest for perfection... help me out.

[Andy Holt]

This is my first post at FTR. However, I've read through the site for a short while, picking up a lot of great tips... And seeing some results in my 'roll.

Let me introduce myself... My name's Andy Holt, and I'm a card player in a bit of a blunder. Hopefully you guys can help me out.

Since about a year ago, I've played poker on the internet at various sites: Party, Stars, Paradise for about 3 days (lol), UB, and most recently Full Tilt.

I always used to be a losing player. I didn't know why, I was playing the right cards, so why did I keep losing? Well, now I know the main weakness I had back then, playing on such a pathetic bankroll (limited to an occasional $50 deposit when I had a little extra money- which was then promptly lost).

Sometime this spring, maybe it was March, I had about $150 saved up on Stars from SNGs (all I used to play back then) and withdrew it to put it into Party. I played the Step SNGs there (not mini-steps or whatever, the original steps) and actually cashed on Step 5 after a wild ride up the "fish ladder," as I've nicknamed it. I took second for a cool $2500, which I then promptly withdrew and spent on other things besides poker.

A newb with a ton of cash is probably best kept away from the tables anyway, right?

Anyway, about 2-3 months ago I got the bug again and started really learning hold 'em and perfecting the craft. I deposited $100 into Full Tilt after learning of their alluring bonus, and started playing there. I played like a fiend. I'd estimate about 6 hours a day on average.

Even at that rate, I just cleared the bonus yesterday, but that's not important. What is important is that I've learned so much about the game in such a short time, including my emotional struggles and decision making skills I didn't even know I had.

My roll was sitting at a cool $550 (big deal, right) when all of a sudden, something happened.

I started to tilt. For some reason, I didn't think I could lose. And I lost. A lot.

Over the course of about 3 days, I tilted away about $400 before deciding to call it quits and withdraw.

Then I won a big MTT right before leaving, taking down about $350.

Then I stayed and played over my head again, and promptly lost it all. Again.

I won another MTT with my 'roll at about $90, to bring it back to around $350 again. Yada yada yada.

Now, I sit at around $250, and I'm faced with a decision.

Where do I go from here? I'm withdrawing from Full Tilt, with my bonus now cleared (and not counting the bonus, i'm up a meager $50 now) and my bankroll needs a new home.

I have a few ideas.

-Use my knowledge and skills at low-stakes limit to beat up Party's soft $0.50-$1.00 LHE tables, eventually grinding out a decent bankroll the old-fashioned way.

-Become an unashamed bonus whore, taking easy money with break-even strategy.

-Try strictly playing MTTs (where I seem to be pretty successful) at a place like UB or Stars

-Revert back to beating up SNGs, maybe making another run at the steps.


I've practically memorized Winning Low-Limit Hold 'Em by Lee Jones, and I'm thinking that maybe buying Small Stakes Hold 'Em by Miller and Sklansky is a good move here. I prefer a more TAG style anyway, and Jones advocates sort of a tight weak style.

Anyway, if you've read this far, thank you. I've rambled enough for one post, but I assure you there will be many more.

Anybody have any suggestions as to how I should build my bankroll from here? Anybody ever been in this situation where they didn't really know where to go?

How did you build YOUR 'roll from the ground up? Where you ever in my position?

Is whoring easy money?

Thanks very much for all your helpful feedback.

[Staple Gun]

I would play whatever you think you are the best at, but also enjoy. I built mine up switching between ring, SNG's and MTT's. I have pretty much quit playing ring though because I find it boring and therefore I dont play as well.

Whatever you decide to do good luck and congrats on the STEPS victory.

[nomofoshobro]

Over the course of about 3 days, I tilted away about $400 before deciding to call it quits and withdraw.

Then I won a big MTT right before leaving, taking down about $350.

Then I stayed and played over my head again, and promptly lost it all. Again.

I won another MTT with my 'roll at about $90, to bring it back to around $350 again. Yada yada yada.

Now, I sit at around $250, and I'm faced with a decision.

i will try not to be preachy, but when you make a decision to call it quits and withdraw, there is a reason. you don't necessarily have to actually quit poker and withdraw all your money, but the least you can do is take a break and re-assess your play. the scary part is that there is a fine line between TILT and addictive behavior. i am not saying you have a problem......i don't know you and i am not in the postition to say so. but i will tell you that you seem to lack DISCIPLINE. go read the stickies in the beginner's section. they will help you with these kinds of problems......i know they helped me.

by the way, congrats on the cashing in the STEPs. why don't you stick with SNGs? if you can get to step5, then you must have some idea of what you are doing. it is difficult to get that far by just getting lucky......or is that what happened?

[Gatlin Dan]

Do what you enjoy the most, but do it within your bankroll. Poker is not and should never be approached as a "get rich quck" plan. It's like anything else in life, the more you put into it, the more you will get out of it.

If you play limit, I would get 500 (minimum) together and put it on party and play .5/1. There's nothing wrong with whoring it either. Party is the best (IMO) to whore a bonus.

If you are going to play ring games, try to always play with a bonus under you (unless you have rakeback). If they are going to pay you extra to do what you are going to do anyway, there's no reason not to take advantage of it. Money is money.

[ChezJ]

i agree, the problem seems to be a lack of patience and discipline. to answer your question, i built up my roll the hard way, one quarter at a time. at times, it was boring as hell but it produced results. whenever i try to break out and get rich quick at a NL table or a higher limit table, i inevitably lose several hundred $$$ and have to go back to basics. winning poker is a GRIND, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

ChezJ

[Andy Holt]

Thanks for all the helpful advice. I knew I could count on you guys.

I also forgot to mention that I've been to STEP 5 on three separate occasions, only cashing once, but I made a run at it all the way from 1 to 5 about a month ago (using extreme discipline by playing only one step a night and preparing mentally for each one all day at work) and I BUBBLED.

So I'd say making it up there was not extreme luck, I consider my SnG skills to be pretty good, although I don't have any stats recorded.

Let me reply to a few of your suggestions:

Staple Gun: It's probably better to do as you did, and alternate between ring, SNG's and MTT's since I'm not a clear-cut master at any single one, and it'll keep me well rounded. Thanks.

nomo: You're right that I have a problem with discipline, and I read all the beginner's section stickies, especially the one about the Psychology of Losing, and I think you helped me to realize that this is a pretty severe leak in my game. I'm going to work to correct it by setting clear cut goals, and really buckling down and working for every dollar and not playing over my head. Thanks. And perhaps someday I'll emerge as a "SNG monster" with a 75% ITM, who knows.

Dan: I realized pretty early on that poker couldn't make me rich quick, and I guess it bears repeating (obviously). I may take an initial deposit bonus at somewhere like PokerRoom or Paradise, where I haven't yet played. Also, I sortakinda agree that I'm underrolled even for Party's .5/1, perhaps I can parlay enough in low-level SNGs somewhere to be able to grind out a few bucks at those high-variance tables.

ChezJ: I agree, limit gets pretty boring at times, and it's so easy to have a winning session and give 100NL a try, only to lose the entire buyin on the first hand (actually happened to me, aces vs. a freak runner-runner 2-pr, the guy calling $20 on every street) and tilt like a mofo. My gameplan is now grind-oriented, and I'll always be aware of the temptation to take on a higher level that I will hopefully be able to resist with practice and time.

PATIENCE PATIENCE PATIENCE, ANDY!

Okay, I'd like some more suggestions or roll-building advice/stories/encouragment if possible, but these responses were GREAT. Thanks guys!

Oh yeah, and I'm gonna write up a new post RIGHT NOW about my new gameplan to build a respectable roll!

I call it OPERATION ANDYROLL.

Thanks FTR!