Advice on hand

[IOS]

Please comment on how I played this hand. I think I just got lucky, I only played the hand the way I did was because he didn't show any strength on the flop.

PokerStars Game #2340063295: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/08/14 - 20:58:18 (ET)
Table 'Nestor III' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Rufus1979 ($112.65 in chips)
Seat 2: jkrsh33 ($104 in chips)
Seat 3: 444$$$333 ($20 in chips)
Seat 4: garyjr316 ($60.40 in chips)
Seat 5: IOS ($130.35 in chips)
Seat 6: Nitroman123 ($46.05 in chips)
IOS: posts small blind $0.50
Nitroman123: posts big blind $1
444$$$333: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to IOS [Th Kh]
Rufus1979: raises $2 to $3
jkrsh33: folds
444$$$333: folds
garyjr316: calls $3
IOS: calls $2.50
Nitroman123: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc 3h Jh]
IOS: checks
Rufus1979: bets $5
garyjr316: calls $5
IOS: raises $10 to $15
Rufus1979: calls $10
garyjr316 said, "trip jacks?"
garyjr316: folds
*** TURN *** [Qc 3h Jh] [5c]
IOS: bets $40
Rufus1979: calls $40
*** RIVER *** [Qc 3h Jh 5c] [9h]
IOS: bets $72.35 and is all-in
Rufus1979: calls $54.65 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IOS: shows [Th Kh] (a flush, King high)
Rufus1979: mucks hand
IOS collected $232.30 from pot
garyjr316 said, "oh.. suck out"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $235.30 | Rake $3
Board [Qc 3h Jh 5c 9h]
Seat 1: Rufus1979 mucked [Ad Ac]
Seat 2: jkrsh33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: 444$$$333 folded before Flop
Seat 4: garyjr316 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: IOS (small blind) showed [Th Kh] and won ($232.30) with a flush, King high
Seat 6: Nitroman123 (big blind) folded before Flop

[Laeelin]

Your first mistake is here:

Dealt to IOS [Th Kh]
IOS: calls $2.50

You got lucky and hit a straight/flush draw so that you had a ton of outs, so the flop makes sense.

on the turn you called a pot size bet with the draw..

you need:

any 9
any A
any heart...

9 hearts left, 6 non heart 9's and A's left in the deck...
One card to come gave you about a 33% chance of hitting it, it's -EV to make the call on the current odds, but would be +EV if you are 100% sure that he will pay you off if you hit, AND your sure he isnt on a A high flush draw.....

But you said you thought he was showing weakness, I'd say easy fold.

[IOS]

on the turn you called a pot size bet with the draw..


But you said you thought he was showing weakness, I'd say easy fold.

On turn, I made the pot size bet, I was hoping he would fold, but he didn't.

If I was him, I would have went all-in on the flop after I raised him. But I guess I got extremely lucky.

Thanks for your input. By the way, what does -EV and +EV mean? and how does it work.

[BobbySalami]

+/- Expected Value.....It is a very important concept in poker....

Say you have a 30% chance to win a pot on the turn and the pot is $10 to you, you can call a $3 bet for an Expected Value (EV) = 0.

If you call a $5 bet that would be -EV, however you might have enough implied odds to cover this -EV, but this is all dependant...

If you call a $1 bet, this is very +EV and the call should be made everytime....the goal in poker is to have every move you make +EV in some sort of fashion....its all about the longterm.

[Laeelin]

on the turn you called a pot size bet with the draw..


But you said you thought he was showing weakness, I'd say easy fold.

On turn, I made the pot size bet, I was hoping he would fold, but he didn't.

If I was him, I would have went all-in on the flop after I raised him. But I guess I got extremely lucky.

Thanks for your input. By the way, what does -EV and +EV mean? and how does it work.

OOOOPS, YOU bet the $40....

That changes things lol...

Other than the preflop call, I think it's well played.

There is a big diffrence between betting a pot sized bet and calling a pot sized bet...

btw: AA all in on the flop is -EV... Rember that after the flop AA is just 1 pair.

[TripsChaos]

i like the play...

your preflop call is questionable b/c its a moderate hand, but you were in the blinds so i can't fault you for calling.

The first guy to respond was right, you have so many outs after the flop, you raised, knowing that they could fold or pay you off, but it was pretty clear that one of them was going to call you when they 5 bucks into a 10 dollar pot on the flop. I like how you contniued to bet on the turn, and bet big, knowing you still had outs, and fortunately you hit your draw. Your opponent was stupid for multiple reasons:

he only raised BBx3 with a big hand, i would def raise to 4.
He only called on the flop, if he were smart, he would have bet more than 5 bucks into a 10 dollar pot with AA, and he should have reraised you all in on the flop.

Final words: he played passive and dumb with a big hand, you bet a big draw strong and got payed. I like it.

[moiraine57]

You did get a little lucky, starting with your pre-flop call, which was a little questionable.

But you are lucky he played his Aces about as badly as you could throughout the entire hand.

He doesn't raise enough pre-flop. Flop, he should either push or fold. That is a dangerous flop against Aces. If I have Aces, I'm pushing and not giving odds to draw. Turn, again, a push or fold situation. 5c is not a particularly scary card. River call? Dumb dumb dumb.

Not perfectly played on your part, but not too bad. You were jamming your draw a little more than I would, but as you said, you sensed weakness and thought you'd semi-bluff.

On his part? Nearly worst Aces play I have ever seen.

[Fnord]

Pre-flop I don't think you can call here, it's too much money out of position if you respect the other guy.

Post-flop I'm thinking I want to either be all-in or drawing cheap. Raising to $15 doesn't accomplish either. This hand is 10x easier to play in position.

[journey075]

fold preflop, youre in the sb. aside from that i really like it.

[Fnord]

But you are lucky he played his Aces about as badly as you could throughout the entire hand.

He doesn't raise enough pre-flop. Flop, he should either push or fold.

I disagree strongly on both points.

[lamaros]

I dont see why everyone says fold pre-flop...

Otherwise your play was very odd, and you got lucky. Dunno what your oponent was thinking...

He puts you on trips or a draw, has to.. and yet he called all the way down.

[moiraine57]

But you are lucky he played his Aces about as badly as you could throughout the entire hand.

He doesn't raise enough pre-flop. Flop, he should either push or fold.

I disagree strongly on both points.

[moiraine57]

But you are lucky he played his Aces about as badly as you could throughout the entire hand.

He doesn't raise enough pre-flop. Flop, he should either push or fold.

I disagree strongly on both points.

Cool, but usually I view these forums as places to learn, which is why it helps to explain your POV......dropping in, disagreeing, and then leaving is a bit counterintuitive. Why not share your wisdom? I am very interested in your POV, if you would care to explain more fully.

My POV:
-PFR....eh, the individual with pocket Aces makes a standard 3x BB raise. The reason it sucks is because the raise is UTG. You have to play out of position the whole hand. I think here, to site an old chestnut, you either win small pots or lose big ones. There are many rooms I play in where you could easily see half the room play a 3x raise like that. I guess it depends how well you play after the flop and your ability to let go of your hand (which, as was proven, was about nil). If you can't let your Aces go, come hell or high water, it's best to take the Blinds and move on. I think a 3x BB raise UTG is a great move for a strong player....not so great for a weak player.

-Flop. Hmmm....Flop comes down helping two very obvious drawing hands (or even making a hand that has you already beat) and the person with Aces just calls a 3x check-raise. Already, at this point, it is nearly a coin-flip. And Aces doesn't press his hand (and slight edge) AT ALL. Isn't the definition of good play here giving your opponent the opportunity to play contrary to his odds? The play would make more sense if Aces wanted to see a turn card first, and go all-in on the turn, but since he didn't do that, flop play makes even less sense.

Your thoughts? I guess part of the reason I view his pre-flop and flop actions so badly is because the turn and the river were played so heinously, and the only way the pre-flop and the flop actions make sense is if he was setting himself up for good play on later streets...which he obviously wasn't.

[DimitriT]

Fold to the PF raise. You check raised the flop on your draw (very nice). Now you can check the turn and probably pick up a free card. Also you could check to see if your opponent is drawing too or if he has a hand, and act accordingly on the river. The reason you want to know this is that there are two hands that could beat you: the nut straight and the nut flush. What would you have done if the river was a K? The all-in was risky because he could have had the nut flush.

I guess my approach to these hands is to play an aggressive flop (define my hand) and then look for cheap cards and information.