What now?

[lamaros]

PokerStars Game #2518650019: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/09/07 - 05:45:55 (ET)
Table 'Ortrud' Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: lamaros ($8.16 in chips)
Seat 3: KCJAM ($1.98 in chips)
Seat 4: Bicmeister ($11.83 in chips)
Seat 6: CheeseMind ($3.17 in chips)
Seat 7: stayinthere ($1.63 in chips)
Seat 9: Freddy13th ($4.82 in chips)
Freddy13th: posts small blind $0.01
lamaros: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lamaros [Ts 2h]
KCJAM: folds
Bicmeister: calls $0.02
CheeseMind: calls $0.02
stayinthere: folds
Freddy13th: calls $0.01
lamaros: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd 2d Td]
Freddy13th: bets $0.04
lamaros: raises $0.06 to $0.10
Bicmeister: folds
CheeseMind: folds
Freddy13th: calls $0.06
*** TURN *** [Qd 2d Td] [3d]
Freddy13th: checks
lamaros: bets $0.15
Freddy13th: raises $0.25 to $0.40
lamaros said, "oh dear"
lamaros: folds
Freddy13th collected $0.58 from pot
Freddy13th: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.58 | Rake $0
Board [Qd 2d Td 3d]
Seat 1: lamaros (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 3: KCJAM folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Bicmeister folded on the Flop
Seat 6: CheeseMind folded on the Flop
Seat 7: stayinthere (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Freddy13th (small blind) collected ($0.58)

Bad play?

[Rondavu]

This is an INSTAFOLD on the flop. Consider the following....

-You merely have second pair
-There are two to act behind you
-Your kicker is a 2
-The board is entirely suited
-You're playing low stakes (loose)

That considered, I think what you did here is you made a MOVE. You represented a stronger hand than you had in order to force folds behind you. You're leveraging the board against the table. There are three problems with this...

-Pot is small
-You have nothing to fall back on (minimal outs)
-Early act showed strength without info

Watch out when the SB leads out at ya. He's usually not fcking around if he doesn't care what anyone else has before betting.

You took a -EV risk for no good reason. You made a move for the sake of making a move.

The situation where you will most often fold the winning hand, is in early position when someone even earlier leads out at you when your hand is vulnerable. Remember this situation. It will come up often. Sometimes you'll have something like Q5 offsuit six handed. The flop comes out Tc Jc Qs. YOU HAVE TOP PAIR! But wait, the SB leads out with a 3/4 pot bet. You're staring at top pair but it really is an instant fold situation now. This is where you could potentially lay down the best hand, and it's the right move.

You have to think about what's behind you. Even if you thought this guy in the SB was drawing, there could still be a something strong behind you ready to smooth call suspiciously.

BAD PLAY

[DimitriT]

Bottom two pair on a draw heavy board with 3 opps. Ouch.

This could suck some money out of you, but I would come at 'em
here with a .20 raise. Hopefully narrow it to a guy with TP.

Edit: You needed to bet more on the flop but it was a good fold.

[lamaros]

Rondavu: I did have two pair, not just the one. I raised because I wanted to find out if someone had the flush.

I felt the bet was a nothing, that the guy had a pair and was drawing, but the diamond on the turn made me feel he might have hid that flush draw. If anything but a diamond had fallen I would probably have felt pretty comfortable.

I guess I felt that the first guy was semi-bluffing or drawing and that if another diamond didn't fall I'd have him beat. I raised to see if anyone else in the hand might have had the flush, if they called behind I would have been wary, but I didn't want to throw away the hand because I felt the SB wouldn't put me on it and I could get some money out of him... if no diamond fell.

I think now that I probably should have checked the turn and hoped for another ten or two, and not set myself up to fold to the check-raise... and perhaps bet the flop more. But I don't think the hand was a deffinate fold.

[Rondavu]

Sorry man, I didn't notice you had two pair. Good attempt in that case. Good fold as well.

[PokerPatNEU]

Why not check behind on the turn? I think this is one of those cases where you only get called by a better hand (flush).

If you check behind and he is not holding a diamond, and a non diamond falls on the river, he's going to check again fearing you have a diamond in your hand, you show down your two pair for free and take down a small pot.

If you check behind and he IS holding a diamond, he is going to bet the river and you are going to fold, you lost all the money you put in the pot on the flop and pre flop. But you didnt lose any on the turn or river.

If you bet the turn and he isnt holding a diamond, he folds and you take down the same small pot you would have taken down had you checked behind.

If you bet the turn and he is holding a diamond, he is going to raise you or smooth call then bet out the river and you are gonig to fold. You lose more money than you would have if you checked the turn then folded the river.


Checking behind on the turn on a 3 suited board when you hold 2 pair is +EV in the long run I believe. The river might bring you a boat once in a while that villains with a big flush will pay off a fair amount of the time.