You have Got to be F-ing kidding me!!

[Frizzle02]

Dont usually Bitch but this is Fing SHIT!!
Sorry im venting right now, went from a +90$ session to a -$120 session in 2 hands this is the majority.

I swear to god man. I had AA 5 times in my hour session. 2 times lost huge, 2 times just got the blinds, and the other time won like $6

Is this just Bad LUCK???

#Game No : 2836691828
***** Hand History for Game 2836691828 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, October 06, 19:00:20 EDT 2005
Table Table 36907 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: Cerberius ( $45.20 )
Seat 3: pagnus ( $44.60 )
Seat 6: zfrizzle02 ( $88 )
Seat 8: poddytrained ( $62.35 )
Seat 9: Cobra_Balz ( $15.75 )
Seat 10: epicprincess ( $80.60 )
Seat 7: MSB75007 ( $99.45 )
Seat 1: LIFLIF ( $48.75 )
Seat 4: parana88 ( $31.90 )
Seat 5: LeejaStar ( $49 )
poddytrained posts small blind [$0.25].
Cobra_Balz posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zfrizzle02 [ Ac Ad ]
epicprincess folds.
LIFLIF folds.
Cerberius folds.
pagnus folds.
parana88 folds.
LeejaStar folds.
zfrizzle02 calls [$0.50].
>You have options at Table 37736 Table!.
MSB75007 raises [$2.50].
poddytrained folds.
Cobra_Balz folds.
zfrizzle02 calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Qs, 6c ]
zfrizzle02 checks.
MSB75007 bets [$2].
zfrizzle02 calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
zfrizzle02 bets [$4].
MSB75007 raises [$12].
>You have options at Table 37736 Table!.
zfrizzle02 is all-In [$79.50]
MSB75007 calls [$71.50].
** Dealing River ** [ Td ]
MSB75007 shows [ Qc, Qd ] three of a kind, queens.
zfrizzle02 doesn't show [ Ac, Ad ] a pair of aces.
MSB75007 wins $173.75 from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.


Also, please no comments about limping aces. My last three raises all got folded too, i wanted to make some money off the hand.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Also, please no comments about limping aces. My last three raises all got folded too, i wanted to make some money off the hand.

If you don't want to hear crtiticism then don't post. If you don't want to grow as a player then keep that same attitude.

[edudlive]

Pretty standard stuff

The "I've been raising" comment makes no sense, if you raise AGAIN they may get tired of you (seeing you as laggy) and play back at you

[Frizzle02]

All i want to know is did i mis-play post flop or just bad luck.

I know you shouldnt slow play AA but thank god the button raised for me huh.

[Armstrong]

That QQ hand was inevitable and you have to accept you will get your fairshare of that same situation.

I agree that the "I've been raising AA and got no play" comment is a losing quote. You want to bet when you have the best hand for sure, so raising preflop allows you to do that. You cannot put anyone on a hand if you are limping aces and get some more limpers behind you.


Summary: Don't limp Pocket Aces unless your on a VERY VERY aggressive table.

[Frizzle02]

Also, Did anyone notice that it was folded all the way around to me. That is exactly why i limped cause i didnt want the blinds again. But, it didnt matter cause the button was sitting on big QQ.

[edudlive]

Two parts jump out at me:

1)

** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Qs, 6c ]
zfrizzle02 checks.
MSB75007 bets [$2].
zfrizzle02 calls [$2].

You really need to be raising here for information. Did he spike a set? Two Pair? TPTK? or jack crap?

2)
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
zfrizzle02 bets [$4].
MSB75007 raises [$12].

He 3x'd your raise here when a card hit that more than likely did NOT help his hand fell..that screams set (or if he's a donk, two pair)

[Les_Worm]

Don't Slowplay. I don't care if all you get are the blinds, keep raising or possibly limp/reraise from EP at a very aggressive table where you are sure there will be a raise behind you. You gotta raise the flop to see where you stand. If nothing else, you don't need to go all in on the turn. A raise to $30 would accomplish the same thing (getting him to fold a worse hand) and saves you money when he has a better one.

[bencathers]

Would you rather win the blinds or lose a big pot like this?

You need to know where you stand. If he calls your raise, you know what you are against. What if you limped and BB checked with Q7 and took down the pot? Would you rather limp and hope ppl spike TPTK and bet it on you?

There's really nothing good that can come out of it. If all you win is the blinds, it sure beats losing...

[a500lbgorilla]

Obviously just calling the flop and waiting to the turn to raise is running off the cold assumption that you're ahead becuase you have aces and the board isn't draw heavy.

Playing like this will bite you in the ass from time to time.

Opponents at low levels don't usually like to bluff raise so hard on the turn. They're just playing their hand not playing against your donk bet.

I see about 3 HUGE mistakes this hand. Preflop for obvious reasons. The Flop for not raising. And the turn for thinking the opponent is playing against your action and not with his hand.

Aces in a deep stack game is a hand you want to try to get in with early. You define it early and you let your opponent call down. You do not try to 3-bet AI against an opponent who weak leads the flop (standard play by the standard 50 nl player) and makes a power raise on the turn.

AA loses value with every street you wait to put your money in. A lot of value.

-'rilla

[Frizzle02]

You Mean to tell me that i could have gotten himt to fold pre-flop? No way...i was doomed from the begninning, i guess i should have folded on the turn or not pushed so hard.

[Les_Worm]

You Mean to tell me that i could have gotten himt to fold pre-flop? No way...i was doomed from the begninning, i guess i should have folded on the turn or not pushed so hard.

Nobody is saying that you could have gotten him to fold, however if you get your money in preflop you would have played the hand well....by getting your money in on the turn you played it poorly.

[a500lbgorilla]

If the hand looked like this: Limp/raise, Bet/push, I'd just move this thread to the bad beats forum.

If the hand played like this Raise/push for just preflop, you wouldn't even have a question to ask (I hope)

-'rilla

[Rondavu]

Two parts jump out at me:

1)

** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Qs, 6c ]
zfrizzle02 checks.
MSB75007 bets [$2].
zfrizzle02 calls [$2].

You really need to be raising here for information. Did he spike a set? Two Pair? TPTK? or jack crap?

2)
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
zfrizzle02 bets [$4].
MSB75007 raises [$12].

He 3x'd your raise here when a card hit that more than likely did NOT help his hand fell..that screams set (or if he's a donk, two pair)

edudlive hit it right on the head with his second point. Once you bet the turn right out, only a very good hand is going to raise you that hard. It's time to seek a cheap showdown when this happens. You didn't even attempt to put the guy on a hand. If you had, then you would have realized that since you had AA, then AQ was unlikely. Even if he did have AQ, it doesn't often raise this hard when you attempt to jockey control way. Other than a rare AQ here, there is no other hand you're ahead of that raises that hard after you bet out the turn accept KK, and KK is almost as unlikely as AQ in this spot.

This is a game involving information and representation. You hacked them both here.

[Frizzle02]

Alright i c where everyone is coming from and where my mistakes were, but was it bad to check the flop. Doesnt anyone slow play, i was trying to get the most out of my hand. The flop came Queen high and no draws, you wouldnt check that either? Even if i bet the flop and he came over the top of me, I would have pushed.

Oh, and thats enough out of you shane...i mean rilla. Im kicking ur ass over thanksgiving break. lol

Thanks again for the comments!

The one lesson learned from this is don't slowplay an overpair.

Ever.

[edudlive]

Alright i c where everyone is coming from and where my mistakes were, but was it bad to check the flop. Doesnt anyone slow play, i was trying to get the most out of my hand. The flop came Queen high and no draws, you wouldnt check that either? Even if i bet the flop and he came over the top of me, I would have pushed.

Oh, and thats enough out of you shane...i mean rilla. Im kicking ur ass over thanksgiving break. lol

Thanks again for the comments!

Slowplaying is for when you have little chance of being outdrawn, such as a set on an uncooridinated board (where your only real threat is a bigger set), an overpair is way too susceptible to being outdrawn to slowplay. I myself have tried slowplaying Aces before too, and I suffered one of two fates: 1) still only taking down a small pot or 2) losing, I never really gained any extra chips by taking a more passive stance on my Aces (the exception being cold calling a flop bet in Limit with the intent to check raise the turn to get more money in, but this is still risky). You are right though, on the flop you'd go over the top and lose your money (and it is hard for someone to say thats a bad play at that level). My play for hand would have been more like:

Raise preflop
Bet the queen high flop and likely get cold called and think (ah hah! Aq/Kq/Qt etc that people will play at the $50NL level...even for a raise)
Bet the turn and get raised (here I should go "SHIT!" and figure if he's bluffing, nh him but I'm not going to more money on a hand I'm probably beaten on)

[Rondavu]

Slowplay is inherently a sacrifice of your read based on your assumption that you don't need a read. When you smooth called preflop you sacrificed a read with intent to trap. You went flying without a parachute. Unfortunately for you, shit happens sometimes when you don't extract your proper reads out of arrogant notions of entrapment. That's exactly what happened. In essence, you got your hand stuck in the cookie jar.

When you have a hand like AA, what you have is one kick ass pair that's next to impossible to lay down. It's even harder without a read. The only way your not losing a crapload when behind on an uncoordinated board with AA is if by patterns of betting you can deduce and sniff out another high pocket that smacked a set or broadways that hit two pair.

Usually with AA, you have to be weary of 4th and 5th street action. One pair can't take a lot of late action.