AK on a harmless board

[DoGGz]

hmmm

***** Hand History for Game 3012532073 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, November 10, 02:50:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 66499 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: TealDeal ( $153.75 )
Seat 2: fivecardstu ( $114.15 )
Seat 3: GinnyWeasley ( $205.60 )
Seat 4: Rumi_Mowlana ( $146.15 )
Seat 5: bertkc ( $208.55 )
Seat 6: mMagic_Cards ( $216.05 )
Seat 7: jmb71 ( $239.65 )
Seat 8: dbsultan ( $340.65 )
Seat 9: ama90sd ( $561.35 )
Seat 10: Mogeezy ( $325.65 )
GinnyWeasley posts small blind [$1].
Rumi_Mowlana posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mMagic_Cards [ As Ks ]
bertkc calls [$2].
mMagic_Cards raises [$8].
jmb71 calls [$8].
folds.
bertkc calls [$6].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, Kc, Ts ]
bertkc checks.
mMagic_Cards bets [$15].
jmb71 folds.
bertkc raises [$45].

?????

[Toe]

any reads?

What hands would you put him on capable of check raising and how do these compare to your hand?

[Demiparadigm]

If you're ahead you won't win anymore from this hand.
If you're behind, you're losing your stack.
Fold.

[Lukie]

This kind of situation absolutely sucks. I happily call, maybe even reraise against a maniac here. If this guy is solid though, you aren't going to see a showdown without putting your stack in, and it's not like that is a flop where he can put you on a missed continuation bet.

Based on the limp/call preflop and the checkraise on the flop, I think he has 33 or TT and you are beat. Fold.

[Pingviini]

He might also be on a straight draw but that really shows the power of semi-bluff on a spot like this. my play here would completely be based on reads. If your image is solid I would fold here. If its laggy, I would consider..hmm.. something else

[DaHorror]

You bet $15 into about what a $27 pot?
I play a LOT lower limits so I'm not sure if half pot is a standard continuation bet at the higher limits or not - but at the lower tables lotta people will see that as a missed continuation bet, and reraise you with a lot of different stuff - why not $20? At least then you can chok it up to trip 3s, Ts, or KT and let it go.

The way it was played, unless you were intentionally weak betting so that you could get action like this, you are stuck folding to who knows what (KQ, 9T, 88, 99, JJ etc.). If you wanted the action then you probably reraise and try to take the nice pot or fold to an allin.

[EricE]

PF he limped then called a raise. I think the set is beating you here.

[PokerPatNEU]

Would you guys play a set this way? This is the "I have a set you dumby! Look! I'm check raising you super hard! You must fold!" bet. And most people don't make it with a set. It's a bluff a lot of the time.

The problem is that the stacks are deep...It comes down to whether you're into variance or not. Its a gamble to do anything but fold, but i think still a profitable gamble.

[EricE]

Would you guys play a set this way? This is the "I have a set you dumby! Look! I'm check raising you super hard! You must fold!" bet. And most people don't make it with a set. It's a bluff a lot of the time.

The problem is that the stacks are deep...It comes down to whether you're into variance or not. Its a gamble to do anything but fold, but i think still a profitable gamble.

I might, yes. But that is not really the point. The point is whether our opp here would. The answer to that is we don’t know since we don’t have a read. There are times when I am extremely aggressive with my hand like reraising an opp 3x with a set on the flop. Sometimes I will unzip my fly here because I expect to get a call anyway and getting the pot to this size on the flop is going to help me get it All In on successive streets.

Does he expect to get a call here? We don’t know what his read on Doggz is. We can’t really make accurate judgments on this hand unless we know if he wants a call or he wants a fold and that would depend on how he reads Doggz. In a vacuum (without more information) I am folding this hand.

[Fnord]

You need a read here bro.

[DoGGz]

I read him for a monster hand. I actually said outload can he really limp KT utg?

Anyway. I lost most of my stack he had KT. I don't always have readys on players playing 8 tables at a time. I play more off betting patterns.

[Fnord]

I play more off betting patterns.

You say TOE-MAY-TOE, I say TOE-MOTTO, let's call the whole stack off.

[DoGGz]

I play more off betting patterns.

You say TOE-MAY-TOE, I say TOE-MOTTO, let's call the whole stack off.

I raised all in on the turn when a 3 came

[dsaxton]

I play more off betting patterns.

You say TOE-MAY-TOE, I say TOE-MOTTO, let's call the whole stack off.

I raised all in on the turn when a 3 came

And he still called? I wonder if he realized he was losing to a not unlikely A-A.

[joshuadzl]

Sometimes I have reads that permit me to break this rule, but generally, I am not going to commit my stack on just a top pair or overpair. Many people think that is the worst rule ever, but I'm not going to risk going broke on one hand that two pair will simply beat on a suck out. I'm willing to keep knicking away at smaller pots than going for gold with just TP/OP.

[DoGGz]

Sometimes I have reads that permit me to break this rule, but generally, I am not going to commit my stack on just a top pair or overpair. Many people think that is the worst rule ever, but I'm not going to risk going broke on one hand that two pair will simply beat on a suck out. I'm willing to keep knicking away at smaller pots than going for gold with just TP/OP.

same here, I was on tilt.

[Lukie]

Sometimes I have reads that permit me to break this rule, but generally, I am not going to commit my stack on just a top pair or overpair. Many people think that is the worst rule ever, but I'm not going to risk going broke on one hand that two pair will simply beat on a suck out. I'm willing to keep knicking away at smaller pots than going for gold with just TP/OP.

*nods head in agreement, key word GENERALLY though*

I think the biggest exception to this for me is when there is a lot of preflop action that wouldn't give a set odds against an overpair. Say you hold AA preflop, raise, get reraised behind, you reraise again (but don't push).. here you are putting all your money in the middle next time you get the chance, but that's a no brainer.

On a sidenote, how do you limp/call KT UTG in a full ring game? Lol.....

[sejje]

Sometimes I have reads that permit me to break this rule, but generally, I am not going to commit my stack on just a top pair or overpair. Many people think that is the worst rule ever, but I'm not going to risk going broke on one hand that two pair will simply beat on a suck out.

I've built a bankroll with overpairs. Often overpairs to overpairs.

I'm also not risking going broke.

Also, define suckout. To me it means beating me without odds. So I'm winning here, right? Just not this time.

[joshuadzl]

Sejje,

Let me correct myself on something. Preflop I am absolutely more than willing to commit all my chips with Aces or Kings. And when I'm short stacked, obviously I'll play just about any pocket pair in an attempt to double up or head home.

But, with an overpair or top pair great kicker, I stand by my rule of I will not call an all-in. I didn't clarify that earlier. I will (but still be it rare) push all in after the flop if it is checked, or a weak raise is moved on me.

I've only seen this rule backfire on me once when I folded AK with a king on the board to a guy with pocket jacks, all be it I don't see every hand that I fold to when an all in is thrown at me.

Perhaps I'm not showing enough confidence in myself and in my cards by playing this style of poker. However, I play extremely aggressive and I like to buy many smaller pots than go for gold on the larger ones if I don't have a premium made hand. That is how I build my BR and with that style of play I have my rules I play by, though obviously they are never set in stone.

This is just what works for me and it keeps me a more disciplined player. Do you disagree with playing it that way? Do you often call all-in's with top pair\good kicker or an overpair?

I will say that online I will often call large bets with TP\GK or OP no problem. But still, I generally won't call an all in unless it is an extreme short stack who probably will go balls deep on anything that looks remotely good.

[joshuadzl]

What I really want to emphasize is I want to be the one pushing all in, not the one calling all in.