Too Weak?

[Les_Worm]

I know its shorthanded but I know nothing about villain and 8x BB raise is pretty big. I pretty much thought big pair here, not only that but I have to play the rest of the hand out of position. Is this a weak preflop fold?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($14.75)
CO ($21.40)
Button ($1.40)
Hero ($26.70)
BB ($32.25)
UTG ($49.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K.
2 folds, CO raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.75.

[Pingviini]

I wouldnt fold here without any reads given this is nl25. Of course you didnt know that BB was going to call as well. It is not a terrible fold.

[Les_Worm]

I wouldnt fold here without any reads given this is nl25. Of course you didnt know that BB was going to call as well. It is not a terrible fold.

You would rather play the rest of the hand out of position w/ no reads?

[Pingviini]

How big a hand would you require before you could play a hand OOP without any reads? AA?

Like I said, it is not a terrible fold.

[Les_Worm]

How big a hand would you require before you could play a hand OOP without any reads? AA?

Like I said, it is not a terrible fold.

Like I said, I didn't have a read but it looks like a big pair to me. Am I supposed to put money in when I think I am behind?

[Miffed22001]

i get this play all the time. Your read at 25nl may not be correct, ive seen 99 and tt turned over here and AK so id make the call and playfrom there. If youmiss it dont be afraid to fold it. I dont want to put down AK here unless imforced to. But, the fold isnt a bad play either as pingviini suggest imo

[Les_Worm]

i get this play all the time. Your read at 25nl may not be correct, ive seen 99 and tt turned over here and AK so id make the call and playfrom there. If youmiss it dont be afraid to fold it. I dont want to put down AK here unless imforced to. But, the fold isnt a bad play either as pingviini suggest imo

Isn't AK still behind 99 and TT?

[alias2211]

Yeah, AKo is behind, even w/ 9s that don't see your suit, but it's like 55/45 which most call a coinflip:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=21259
pokenum -h ad kh - 9s 9c
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Kh 756208 44.16 950774 55.53 5322 0.31 0.443
9s 9c 950774 55.53 756208 44.16 5322 0.31 0.557

Good thing about 9s and 10s is that even if a J or Q comes, you still got some 'wiggle room' for a move. Maybe.

[Les_Worm]

CO had JJ
Button had QT

[dalecooper]

Results do not surprise. Generally I think raises like that indicate a middle pair or AK, *not* a big pair like aces or kings. Jacks, tens, and nines are the most common. People are scared to play them post-flop so they mega-raise to get people to fold. There are exceptions but that's at least 80% likely to be true. I would just call and take a flop. Any ace or king is a golden check-raising opportunity.

[Miffed22001]

Results do not surprise. Generally I think raises like that indicate a middle pair or AK, *not* a big pair like aces or kings. Jacks, tens, and nines are the most common. People are scared to play them post-flop so they mega-raise to get people to fold. There are exceptions but that's at least 80% likely to be true. I would just call and take a flop. Any ace or king is a golden check-raising opportunity.

Im agreeig with this.
Still if you have premium hands id get involved in these pots. There big on the flop never mind how big they get later if someone doesnt believe you have an ace.

[alias2211]

I just got done reading T.J. Cloutier's Pot and No Limit Hold Em Book (actual title escapes me now), and T.J. really likes to describe AK as a 'trap hand' throughout the whole book. I think what he's talking about mainly is heads up or three to a flop, like you would have been in this situation. By calling from SB with AK vs. JJ, you can likely get enough action from it to make it worth playing. You might want to consider calling here, for the reasons Dale points out. If you spike an overcard, you stand to make some money.

[Les_Worm]

I just got done reading T.J. Cloutier's Pot and No Limit Hold Em Book (actual title escapes me now), and T.J. really likes to describe AK as a 'trap hand' throughout the whole book. I think what he's talking about mainly is heads up or three to a flop, like you would have been in this situation. By calling from SB with AK vs. JJ, you can likely get enough action from it to make it worth playing. You might want to consider calling here, for the reasons Dale points out. If you spike an overcard, you stand to make some money.

It soulds like if this guys has AA or KK then most of you guys are loosing most of your stack here.

[Pingviini]

if both hit, then yes. That is how sets get paid off. Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic but your thinking here sounds a bit too scared to me

[Seabass]

Are you playing lag, is he? Both tag? Will he pay you abit if you hit? Will he fold to any action with overcards?

If my only read/info was that he had a big pair, I'll fold.

[dalecooper]

In a short-handed game and he spikes a set of aces or kings against my TPTK... yes, I'm losing some money. Probably a lot.

Let me come at this from another angle: I see guys raise more than 3xBB all the time in 6 max. Some players always raise like this (8xBB in a .15/.25 game) because they're sick of getting too much action for a 3 or 4xBB raise. If that's the case, they're raising any good hand, and you are a favorite against their range of hands. Other players only raise like this with middle pairs (or even baby pairs) because they're afraid of action, and if that's the case, you're flipping coins vs. a player that may very well donate you a whole lot of chips just by you checking to them one time after hitting your overcard.

If this is the one guy in ten that raises like this specifically with aces/kings, or it's the first guy I described and he's using his normal raise but just happens to have aces/kings... AND I spike an ace or king that also gives him a set... yep, I'm paying him off.

[alias2211]

It soulds like if this guys has AA or KK then most of you guys are loosing most of your stack here.

Probably a fair assessment, depends on how betting rounds unfold. One of the best hands you can learn to play well in 6MAX is AK, but it's also one of the toughest. You should play it preflop just about everytime. And you should play it in such a way that you're purposefully trying to get it heads up or 3 way at the most. I mean, who likes it when you bet out 4BB in early position w/ AK and then get called around? I hate that shit I would rather have folded it because it's a shit hand at that point even if you flop top two pair. Most stacks already have pot odds to commit right on the flop, and you don't want that because it puts you in the tough decision. So try to get isolation. Raising is so helpful w/ AK, you have to think of a specific reason NOT to do it, really. Like, if the original bettor has been playing with junk all day and seeing 55% of flops. Then maybe you call and if you spike the flop, keep calling him down on all streets. That is a fun little game.