Clash of the big stacks

[DogOnMySide]

Game # 172249149 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0,25/0,50 - Table "Falun"
Game ended 2005-11-23 00:39:50 GMT+01:00

Players:
Maazive_81 (EUR 149,42 in seat 1)
NiclasW (EUR 43,55 in seat 2)
johnbutler (EUR 47,15 in seat 3)
TeddaSBG (EUR 38,12 in seat 4)
slipp110 (EUR 25,00 in seat 5)
petrjuss (EUR 12,80 in seat 6)
masse2 (EUR 49,90 in seat 7)
Silentz (EUR 117,72 in seat 8)

Dealer: johnbutler
Small Blind: TeddaSBG (0,25)
Big Blind: slipp110 (0,50)

Silentz was dealt: Js - Jh

petrjuss Fold
masse2 Fold
Silentz Raise (2,00)
Maazive_81 Call (2,00)
NiclasW Call (2,00)
johnbutler Fold
TeddaSBG Call (1,75)
slipp110 Fold

Flop 6h - 3c - 9c

TeddaSBG Check
Silentz Bet (10,00)
Maazive_81 Call (10,00)
NiclasW Fold
TeddaSBG Fold

Turn 6h - 3c - 9c - Qc

Silentz Bet (20,00)
Maazive_81 Raise (40,00)
Silentz Raise (42,00)
Maazive_81 Call (22,00)

River 6h - 3c - 9c - Qc - 6c



???

[Greedo017]

Silentz Bet (20,00)
Maazive_81 Raise (40,00)
Silentz Folds

[DogOnMySide]

Hoped for a few more replies by now. I want to post results but I think its worth saving them still.

I will offer a bit of history to the hand... you know how they say "money flows to the left"?

Well i'd been taking money off 3 or 4 players to my left to build my stack, and villain had mainly been taking it from me! Despite seeing me show down several monsters he just would NOT fold to me, and I'd been giving him credit for hands.

A few hands before this (me on the button) I tried a steal, and he called me on the SB. Called my continuation bet, and we checked it down. He won with A3o... ace high.

2 hands later i get these jacks. He literally insta-calls my preflop bet and again insta-calls (we're talking potential 'i ticked the box' speed) my postflop E10 which i seriously thought would take the pot right there.

Will post results and things later but I would love to hear some comments.

- Whats your line?
- Did I overvalue my hand?
- Do you avoid confrontation with other big stack entirely?
- At what point do you push or fold this?

[Cocco_Bill]

unless you have a strong read on him you should fold to his turn raise.

[rubixstreub]

Silentz Bet (20,00)
Maazive_81 Raise (40,00)
Silentz Folds

This would be my line aswell. Wait until you have a stronger hand to play for stacks against this guy, especially if you know he's going to give you action regardless. I don't think this was the spot to make it happen.

By your post I'm guess you won and are showing off your read.

[r8ed]

unless you have a strong read on him you should fold to his turn raise.

Yup. You are ahead of very few hands here. He could have AK with one of them being a club.

[DogOnMySide]

Thanks for the comments.
Even weaker and more depressing than your predictions... the river club & paired board just killed my belief in my hand dead:


River 6h - 3c - 9c - Qc - 6c

Silentz Check
Maazive_81 Bet (23,00)
Silentz Fold
Maazive_81 Payback (23,00)

Maazive_81 didn't show hand

Maazive_81 wins: EUR 149,50
Rake: EUR 3,00


When he minraised me on the turn, with his history of knocking me off pots, I figured "fuck you, you're taking the piss on a draw". Hence the raise

Anyway the river brings another club, pairs the board, and I just think... what beats me here?

Any 6
99 (or the unlikely 33)
Any Q
Any Club

I didnt believe he had 2 clubs in his hand but i'm pretty sure he has one (or worst case a pair of 9s) and just surrendered the hand for a loss of 74 euros, about $87.

He left the table 1 hand later

It was a terrible turn and river for my hand, and he either slowplayed or just plain outplayed me.

I want to at least learn something from the experience, though.

For me, the big problem is that i was mopping up small stacks and had this dude with an even bigger stack directly to my left who called everything. I was tempted to leave the table before this hand arrived... take my winnings and go look for better position.

I guess I am more concerned about the situation (directly in front of the only person who can take you out) than the hand. So badly placed against him that unless he's SB and you're button, you're constantly out of position and betting into him.

[rubixstreub]

I guess I am more concerned about the situation (directly in front of the only person who can take you out) than the hand. So badly placed against him that unless he's SB and you're button, you're constantly out of position and betting into him.

sounds like a perfect reason to switch tables. I've seen Fnord post about this in the limit forum, about how important table selection and position on strong players becomes as the stakes increase. If you're not comfortable you should probably just get up.

[r8ed]

You really have to wait for the nuts to get his money. I know it's frustrating to sit there and watch this guy knowing you can double up off him if you just get a chance. But, don't get fixated on one opponent and bet into them with a 50/50 chance. They always seem to win those. If you never get that hand, then so be it. It sucks to build a stack for 2 hours and then lose it on one hand that you overplayed.

[Silly String]

The only time that warrants avoiding the big stacks is in tournament poker. In cash games you target everyone the same. The reason big stacks avoid each other in tourney poker is you can't just re-buy. In cash games I want the big stack to play with me as it increases my impied odds. If the big stack is as LAG as you read, then tighten up a little b/c of your position to his right and punish him with your good hands.

I think you fold to that turn raise as well. He isn't cold calling 10 on the flop with nothing but a draw unless you have tilted him, and he hates you. I think he likes the Q and has the A or K of s or he has you already with trip 3s or 9s.(smooth call, turn raise reaks of trips).
The only question I have is: Would you push your JJ that hard into a turn raise against anyone else? Is your read that accurate or are you tilting for this guy a little? Wait for a better situation and take his stack.