Am I too wimpy to play poker?

[r8ed]

Or just patient?
3 hands
***** Hand History for Game 3128937039 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Dec 01 22:56:03 EST 2005
Table Table 69517 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: UGADawgz ( $11.35)
Seat 2: dallasdoug42 ( $20.95)
Seat 3: chimpdaddy02 ( $27.15)
Seat 4: neener123 ( $11.40)
Seat 5: AKassassin5 ( $25.70)
Seat 6: BuddhaJ ( $17.75)
Seat 7: jandje ( $23.90)
Seat 8: adam52040 ( $8.65)
Seat 10: ABeagle ( $5.75)
UGADawgz posts small blind (0.10)
dallasdoug42 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ Jd, Jh ]
chimpdaddy02 folds.
neener123 folds.
AKassassin5 calls (0.25)
BuddhaJ raises (0.50) to 0.50
jandje calls (0.50)
adam52040 folds.
UGADawgz calls (0.40)
dallasdoug42 calls (0.25)
AKassassin5 calls (0.25)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 6s, 4s ]
UGADawgz checks.
dallasdoug42 bets (2)
AKassassin5 folds.
BuddhaJ calls (2)
jandje calls (2)
UGADawgz raises (4) to 4
dallasdoug42 calls (2)
BuddhaJ calls (2)
jandje calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2c ]
UGADawgz bets (6.85)
UGADawgz is all-In.
dallasdoug42 calls (6.85)
BuddhaJ calls (6.85)
jandje folds.
Creating Main Pot with $37.10 with UGADawgz
** Dealing River ** : [ 9d ]
dallasdoug42 checks.
BuddhaJ folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $37.10 | | Rake: $1.95
Board: [ Tc 6s 4s 2c 9d ]
UGADawgz balance $37.10, bet $11.35, collected $37.10, net +$25.75 [ As Ts ] [ a pair of tens with ace kicker -- As,Ts,Tc,9d,6sAs(kicker card) ]
dallasdoug42 balance $9.60, lost $11.35 [ Js Td ] [ a pair of tens -- Js,Td,Tc,9d,6s ]


***** Hand History for Game 3128961384 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Dec 01 22:59:28 EST 2005
Table Table 66561 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: LicMyToe ( $24.50)
Seat 2: droppeddime1 ( $32.20)
Seat 3: mullspoker ( $77.75)
Seat 4: gard41 ( $40.30)
Seat 5: jandje ( $73.85)
Seat 6: echange ( $5)
Seat 7: ccrmoos ( $4.70)
Seat 8: TieDomi28L ( $23.42)
Seat 9: Sushi666 ( $4.75)
Seat 10: toiji ( $40.85)
ccrmoos posts small blind (0.10)
TieDomi28L posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ Ah, Ad ]
Sushi666 folds.
toiji calls (0.25)
LicMyToe folds.
droppeddime1 folds.
mullspoker calls (0.25)
gard41 folds.
jandje raises (1.50) to 1.50
echange folds.
ccrmoos folds.
TieDomi28L folds.
toiji folds.
mullspoker calls (1.25)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qh, 4d, 5d ]
mullspoker checks.
jandje bets (3.45)
mullspoker calls (3.45)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Td ]
mullspoker checks.
jandje checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 9h ]
mullspoker bets (72.80)
mullspoker is all-In.
jandje: you suk dik
jandje: i have aces
jandje folds.

***** Hand History for Game 3129264291 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Dec 01 23:44:20 EST 2005
Table Table 69280 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: cooljon69 ( $19.65)
Seat 2: DevilsAdvikt ( $11.95)
Seat 3: Chili50 ( $25.27)
Seat 4: SNAP888 ( $24.50)
Seat 5: jedei5 ( $26.10)
Seat 6: jandje ( $26.40)
Seat 7: asics07 ( $28.87)
Seat 8: TheNateDogg3 ( $8.50)
Seat 9: from_henry ( $29.05)
Seat 10: roget5 ( $43.45)
jandje posts small blind (0.10)
asics07 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ Qh, Kh ]
TheNateDogg3 folds.
from_henry folds.
roget5 folds.
cooljon69 calls (0.25)
DevilsAdvikt calls (0.25)
Chili50 calls (0.25)
SNAP888 folds.
jedei5 folds.
jandje calls (0.15)
asics07 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8d, 9h, 6h ]
jandje checks.
asics07 bets (1)
cooljon69 folds.
DevilsAdvikt raises (2) to 2
Chili50 folds.
jandje calls (2)
asics07 calls (1)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jc ]
jandje checks.
asics07 checks.
DevilsAdvikt bets (6)
jandje folds.
asics07 raises (12) to 12
DevilsAdvikt calls (3.70)
DevilsAdvikt is all-In.
** Dealing River ** : [ Th ]
Creating Main Pot with $25.35 with DevilsAdvikt
** Summary **
Main Pot: $25.35 | Side Pot 1: $2.30 | Rake: $1.30
Board: [ 8d 9h 6h Jc Th ]
DevilsAdvikt balance $12.67, bet $11.95, collected $12.67, net +$0.72 [ 7c Tc ] [ a straight, seven to jack -- Jc,Tc,9h,8d,7c ]
asics07 balance $29.60, bet $14.25, collected $14.98, net +$0.73 [ 7d 5h ] [ a straight, seven to jack -- Jc,Th,9h,8d,7d ]

[Fnord]

You're an insufferable Nit with a poor grasp of pot equity. Work on this.

Try learning LHE. You have a shit ton of equity you just folded away in these hands.

[mouteut]

UGG your giving them way too much credit and you seem incredibly passive in these hands especially JJ hand. I don't understand why your cold calling, its not like your JJ are likely to improve.

[Fnord]

UGG your giving them way too much credit and you seem incredibly passive in these hands especially JJ hand. I don't understand why your cold calling, its not like your JJ are likely to improve.

If the raise represented legitimate strength or I expected him to go crazy on the flop I would just call.

I would make it $1.5 or $2 depending on how much aggression I wanted to project.

[mouteut]

QKAT comes, hes in trouble, spade come, hes in trouble, and other cards might just give them the two pairs and he still don't know where he's at(its what hapened this hand). I think i would:

#1 raise this pre flop to around 1.50...you don't want bilions callers with JJ
#2 pot sized bet this flop and see what happens.

Jandje is almost playing his overpair like i would play a low pocket pair for set value except with a weird call on the flop.

[r8ed]

You're an insufferable Nit with a poor grasp of pot equity. Work on this.

Trying learning LHE. You have a shit ton of equity you just folded away in these hands.

lmao. This is why I posted these because I'm missing this logic from my game. Where do I gain this knowledge - is there a good place to read up on it? Anyone care to explain why I should call each of these hands?

I only put $5 into the AA hand - it didn't seem like paying another $70 with one pair on a flush board was worth it.

JJ - seemed like too many people to try to beat with one pair, despite it being an overpair to the board.

KQ - two players and I'm chasing a flush that isn't the nut flush with only one card to come.

You know, I had a 3 week stretch last month where I was calling all these and each time I got burned. Similar hands and I was behind in most cases. On monday, I told myself I would go back to being more patient and waiting until I was ahead to put my money in. Here are my stats since monday:
2341 hands
19.89 BB/100
$232.84 profit

I got some good cards during this time, but I didn't put money into situations like the ones above often. Maybe I could have better stats calling these - who knows. I'm always looking to improve, but I go back to whats working when I'm not comfortable. I know when I graduate from 25NL, I need to up my game. If somebody can point me in the right direction to get a better grasp on pot equity, I would appreciate it.

[Fnord]

I only put $5 into the AA hand - it didn't seem like paying another $70 with one pair on a flush board was worth it.

The turn IMPROVED your hand and you checked behind. It's heads-up to the flop and you have the Ace of flush, he very rarely has a flush draw here and putting him on it is pretty darn typical nittyness. At some point you just got to say, "I have a pretty darn good hand and if you have a better hand sir, then I hope I suck out on you."

JJ - seemed like too many people to try to beat with one pair, despite it being an overpair to the board.

You passed on 2 great chances to isolate. Finally, look at the odds the pot is laying. You can lose this A LOT and still show a profit from all the times you are best + hold or suck out.

KQ - two players and I'm chasing a flush that isn't the nut flush with only one card to come.

1 out to the nut flush, 3 to the nut straight, a bunch to the 2nd nut flush and 6 to top pair.

You know, I had a 3 week stretch last month where I was calling all these and each time I got burned.

These games are so good that you could only ever play 22-AA and beat them. I know of at least 1 NL100 player who really is that tight. I gave him like $14 of extra action once and regretted it. He's not getting a dime from me again unless I have a set or better.

[Fnord]

42 games 0.005 secs 8,400 games/sec

Board: 8d 9h 6h Jc
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 23.8095 % 23.81% 00.00% { KhQh }
Hand 2: 76.1905 % 76.19% 00.00% { Tc7c }
Hand 3: 00.0000 % 00.00% 00.00% { 7d5h }


$27.65 in the pot
$12.00 to call
$14 behind

$12 / $39.65 = .30

$12 / $54 = .22

The turn call is really really close.

[bdawg56kg]

Or just patient?
3 hands
***** Hand History for Game 3128937039 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Dec 01 22:56:03 EST 2005
Table Table 69517 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: UGADawgz ( $11.35)
Seat 2: dallasdoug42 ( $20.95)
Seat 3: chimpdaddy02 ( $27.15)
Seat 4: neener123 ( $11.40)
Seat 5: AKassassin5 ( $25.70)
Seat 6: BuddhaJ ( $17.75)
Seat 7: jandje ( $23.90)
Seat 8: adam52040 ( $8.65)
Seat 10: ABeagle ( $5.75)
UGADawgz posts small blind (0.10)
dallasdoug42 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ Jd, Jh ]
chimpdaddy02 folds.
neener123 folds.
AKassassin5 calls (0.25)
BuddhaJ raises (0.50) to 0.50
jandje calls (0.50)
adam52040 folds.
UGADawgz calls (0.40)
dallasdoug42 calls (0.25)
AKassassin5 calls (0.25)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 6s, 4s ]
UGADawgz checks.
dallasdoug42 bets (2)
AKassassin5 folds.
BuddhaJ calls (2)
jandje calls (2)
UGADawgz raises (4) to 4
dallasdoug42 calls (2)
BuddhaJ calls (2)
jandje calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2c ]
UGADawgz bets (6.85)
UGADawgz is all-In.
dallasdoug42 calls (6.85)
BuddhaJ calls (6.85)
jandje folds.
Creating Main Pot with $37.10 with UGADawgz
** Dealing River ** : [ 9d ]
dallasdoug42 checks.
BuddhaJ folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $37.10 | | Rake: $1.95
Board: [ Tc 6s 4s 2c 9d ]
UGADawgz balance $37.10, bet $11.35, collected $37.10, net +$25.75 [ As Ts ] [ a pair of tens with ace kicker -- As,Ts,Tc,9d,6sAs(kicker card) ]
dallasdoug42 balance $9.60, lost $11.35 [ Js Td ] [ a pair of tens -- Js,Td,Tc,9d,6s ]

Since you have position on the minraiser, I would probably reraise this preflop to $2, but calling is okay too I guess. I think you have to reraise that flop for information, not to mention the 2 spades. If he comes back over the top you can confidently fold. If you don't raise the flop, you DEFINITELY have to raise the turn, but waiting till the turn to get info is only gonna cost you more money if you're beat.

*e**** Hand History for Game 3128961384 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Dec 01 22:59:28 EST 2005
Table Table 66561 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: LicMyToe ( $24.50)
Seat 2: droppeddime1 ( $32.20)
Seat 3: mullspoker ( $77.75)
Seat 4: gard41 ( $40.30)
Seat 5: jandje ( $73.85)
Seat 6: echange ( $5)
Seat 7: ccrmoos ( $4.70)
Seat 8: TieDomi28L ( $23.42)
Seat 9: Sushi666 ( $4.75)
Seat 10: toiji ( $40.85)
ccrmoos posts small blind (0.10)
TieDomi28L posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ Ah, Ad ]
Sushi666 folds.
toiji calls (0.25)
LicMyToe folds.
droppeddime1 folds.
mullspoker calls (0.25)
gard41 folds.
jandje raises (1.50) to 1.50
echange folds.
ccrmoos folds.
TieDomi28L folds.
toiji folds.
mullspoker calls (1.25)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qh, 4d, 5d ]
mullspoker checks.
jandje bets (3.45)
mullspoker calls (3.45)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Td ]
mullspoker checks.
jandje checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 9h ]
mullspoker bets (72.80)
mullspoker is all-In.
jandje: you suk dik
jandje: i have aces
jandje folds.

I would bet $5 on the turn and fold to a push/big check raise. He could be pushing the river with any two since you showed so much fear once the flush card hit. As you played it you have to fold the river.

***** Hand History for Game 3129264291 *****
0/0 Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) - Thu Dec 01 23:44:20 EST 2005
Table Table 69280 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: cooljon69 ( $19.65)
Seat 2: DevilsAdvikt ( $11.95)
Seat 3: Chili50 ( $25.27)
Seat 4: SNAP888 ( $24.50)
Seat 5: jedei5 ( $26.10)
Seat 6: jandje ( $26.40)
Seat 7: asics07 ( $28.87)
Seat 8: TheNateDogg3 ( $8.50)
Seat 9: from_henry ( $29.05)
Seat 10: roget5 ( $43.45)
jandje posts small blind (0.10)
asics07 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ Qh, Kh ]
TheNateDogg3 folds.
from_henry folds.
roget5 folds.
cooljon69 calls (0.25)
DevilsAdvikt calls (0.25)
Chili50 calls (0.25)
SNAP888 folds.
jedei5 folds.
jandje calls (0.15)
asics07 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8d, 9h, 6h ]
jandje checks.
asics07 bets (1)
cooljon69 folds.
DevilsAdvikt raises (2) to 2
Chili50 folds.
jandje calls (2)
asics07 calls (1)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jc ]
jandje checks.
asics07 checks.
DevilsAdvikt bets (6)
jandje folds.
asics07 raises (12) to 12
DevilsAdvikt calls (3.70)
DevilsAdvikt is all-In.
** Dealing River ** : [ Th ]
Creating Main Pot with $25.35 with DevilsAdvikt
** Summary **
Main Pot: $25.35 | Side Pot 1: $2.30 | Rake: $1.30
Board: [ 8d 9h 6h Jc Th ]
DevilsAdvikt balance $12.67, bet $11.95, collected $12.67, net +$0.72 [ 7c Tc ] [ a straight, seven to jack -- Jc,Tc,9h,8d,7c ]
asics07 balance $29.60, bet $14.25, collected $14.98, net +$0.73 [ 7d 5h ] [ a straight, seven to jack -- Jc,Th,9h,8d,7d ]

Here I would definitely lead this flop. If theres a lot of action after you I can let it go. If you just called like you did I would lead the turn for 3/4 pot or so. You have a huge draw, play it aggressively, or don't complete from the small blind. As you played it, I think I fold the turn. Calling bets with a draw out of position is a leak IMO.

[outphase]

hand 1: You have to find a good reason to be folding that turn as it was pretty much a blank (barring weak straight). There's a push somewhere in there, probably on the flop.

hand 2: You have to bet the turn, the turn improved your hand to the flush draw.

hand 3: bet the flop, you have a very strong draw. 2nd nut flush (9) + backdoor straight draw (1.5) + overcards (6)

[TalentedTom]

YOUR WHAT WE CALL A NUT STRADDLER

If you dont have top trips or top flush/straight etc... you will fold your hand if someone challenges you. This is probably because you are afraid of the money + you are insanley emotional and are incapable of taking bad beats so you decide to set-up this type of defence mechanicsm.

It's meaningless analyzing hand by hand, its clear your missing the big picture here, and I will try to show it to you.

When I first started playing poker 9 months ago, I was just like you, i was still consistantly winning because the competetion is just so soft it's incredible, you can get away with tons of crap.

While this may work you are folding a ****load of equity. JJ is one of the top 4 starting hands in the game, on a ten high flop you fold it... jeez...

Your best bet, is to move down a either to 25NL or 10NL and learn the game the way it's meant to be played ( at least learn to play monster hands )

I personally don't mind playing against people like you because you never bluff and you will never reraise me without the nuts. You said you folded aces because you had overpairs cracked earlier, don't let and past experiences alter your current experience. The fact is most of the time they will not be cracked, it dosn't matter if you lose AA six times in a row (trust me i take more bad beats than anyone, I sometimes feel i am born unlucky so I must play much better to make just marginal profit)

I've gotten to this point, very recently, where I dont care if I win hands or lose them, I just try and play my best. ~Three weeks ago I had a day where EVERY SINGLE hand I played turned out to be the 2nd best hand, EVERYTHING was getting either outflopped or rivered. I was getting pwned with a capital P. The thing about that day, it changed me as a poker player and helped me reach a new level, short term results are no longer an issue for me.

If it helps, you can check out how I play some hands and perhaps it will give you some insight into how these donks play. I learned, it dosnt matter if a guy is up 3-4 buy-ins, he can still be a peice of **** player, all I can do is speak for myself.
http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...er=TalentedTom

Take care. PS as for worring about sets vs overpair, AT LEAST 5 outa 6 times your pocket pair should holdvs a underpair.

[r8ed]

I appreciate the advice. These 3 hands do not speak for my whole game. These are hands that I played too passively and somebody else took control of the pot and I let it go. That's why I posted them.

I had a poor month in November because I tried doing the loose aggression thing. I'm not sure how successful that is at 25NL as nobody will fold. I went back to nut peddling and made good profits. My goal right now is to build my bankroll high enough where I can experiment more with more aggressive play and not even think about the money.

You need to work on that postflop aggression!

Hand #1: I won't comment on the preflop play; although I prefer to raise preflop, some people have made a winning strategy of playing JJ for a set in Party's $25 NL ring. Raise up the flop to something like $6 after dallasdoug's $2 bet.

Hand #2: I'd probably go for a 2/3 pot bet on the turn and fold to a big raise.

Hand #3: I'd probably open for something like $1.50 on the flop, maybe a tad more.

Hope this helps.

[TalentedTom]

I appreciate the advice. These 3 hands do not speak for my whole game. These are hands that I played too passively and somebody else took control of the pot and I let it go. That's why I posted them.

I had a poor month in November because I tried doing the loose aggression thing. I'm not sure how successful that is at 25NL as nobody will fold. I went back to nut peddling and made good profits. My goal right now is to build my bankroll high enough where I can experiment more with more aggressive play and not even think about the money.

Nut peddling works great against donks, but if your goal is to move up levels, you will need to mix it up. It all depends where you want to be.