Dealing with fools

[Telepath]

Everest Poker — Hand Details
Hand ID: 126595189
Table ID: -5633011
Play Mode: Real
Table Name: Moroni-2
Game Type: Hold'em
Blinds: $0.50/$1.00
Stakes: $1.00/$1.00
Currency: USD
Starting Date: 2005-12-18 GMT
Starting Time: 21:18:53 GMT



Seating Arrangement:

ukkel is at seat 1 with $33.76.
Lefkothea is at seat 2 with $108.08.
sblack is at seat 3 with $66.06.
Thomas72 is at seat 5 with $86.38.
Waterman is at seat 6 with $91.10.
bjaskrove is at seat 7 with $99.00.
MesiaH is at seat 8 with $116.36.
Telepath is at seat 9 with $107.58.
Probi is at seat 10 with $39.00.

Post Blinds:

The button is at seat 3.
Thomas72 posts the small blind of $0.50.
Waterman posts the big blind of $1.00.

Deal Pocket Cards:

ukkel: -- --
Lefkothea: -- --
sblack: -- --
Thomas72: -- --
Waterman: -- --
bjaskrove: -- --
MesiaH: -- --
Telepath: Ah Ad
Probi: -- --

Pre-flop:
bjaskrove folds.
MesiaH calls $1.00.
Telepath raises $3.50. [Too small raise size normally for AA on this site, but it has been passive preflop today and I've already destroyed two KK by raising too much and getting all folds.]
Probi folds.
ukkel folds.
Lefkothea folds.
sblack calls $3.50.
Thomas72 folds.
Waterman folds.
MesiaH calls $2.50.


Flop (Kd 6s 4d):
MesiaH checks.
Telepath raises $6.00. [Dry flop, almost certainly best hand]
sblack calls $6.00.
MesiaH folds.


Turn (Kd 6s 4d Js):
Telepath raises $25.00.
sblack calls $25.00.


River (Kd 6s 4d Js Qh):
Telepath checks.
sblack checks.


Showdown:
Telepath shows Ah Ad.
Telepath has Js Qh Kd Ah Ad: Pair
sblack shows 3s Ks.
sblack has 6s Js Qh Ks Kd: Pair


Pot Summary:
Total Pot: $74.00
Telepath wins $71.04.
House Rake: $2.96

How is my line? Do you bet the river? I check with the intention to call his all-in if it comes. I can't see him calling all-in with a worse hand than mine except POSSIBLY AK but there is a possibility he might try to bluff at it (these dudes are dense.)

T.

T.

[AHiltz]

If you are willing to call an all-in, and aren't 90% sure that he will fire at it, value bet the river. Otherwise you are losing money.

[Telepath]

You're right. Should've.

T.

[Fnord]

Tough flop for Aces. I don't bet the turn so hard so I have some room to play the river without committing to the hand.

[Zinnsoldaten]

Don't think the flop is bad, turn and river are rougher though.

[Telepath]

I think the flop is excellent. It's the turn and river that concern me. Reason I bet hard on the turn was exactly that I put him on some kind of draw. I got kinda surprised when he showed down king abysmal kicker runner flush draw, but... I didn't really raise enough preflop to get out those shitty holdings I guess, which was a good thing in this instance.

T.

[Lukie]

Tough flop for Aces. I don't bet the turn so hard so I have some room to play the river without committing to the hand.

Kd 6s 4d

[EricE]

I didn't really raise enough preflop to get out those shitty holdings I guess, which was a good thing in this instance.

There is a difference between isolation and pushing out bad hands. You want to isolate but you want that hand to be crappy. hehe. You are seriously making lots of money off these people that will call with these hands. Love them. I just wanted to point out where your profit comes from. You can't push out bad hands, stop trying and thinking you can. Just keep raising enough to isolate to the level you desire.

[bdawg56kg]

If you are willing to call an all-in, and aren't 90% sure that he will fire at it, value bet the river. Otherwise you are losing money.

Very true. This is great advice.

[Rondavu]

If you are willing to call an all-in, and aren't 90% sure that he will fire at it, value bet the river. Otherwise you are losing money.

Very true. This is great advice.

It is good advice. I'd like to show the other side of the coin for fairness. If you want a cheap showdown, but may be willing to call an all in, then it may be best to check. I'm hoping an opponent with a hand that beats me will price me in to a call, but if they don't then maybe I call anyway. The added element of the number of times an opponent bluffs all in may make it more +EV to me then betting the river and getting raised all in. In that case you're screwed.

I think the difference between calling an all in after checking, and calling an all in raise is significant. Should they be equated as one and the same?

I'm not entirely sure how to approach this small edge situation myself, but I figured I'd throw some angles into the mix. I don't advocate missing value on a river, but unless you're against a complete fish, what hand is hanging around here for a nice value bet? I guess any bare king.