Checking River after Leading Flop & Turn

[DaNutsInYoEye]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) converter

Hero ($154.15)
MP ($57.15)
CO ($98.70)
Button ($87.70)
SB ($48)
BB ($23.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K, J.
Hero raises $3 to $4, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls $4, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: ($9) 2, 9, K (2 players)
Hero bets $7, Button calls $7.

Turn: ($23) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $15, Button calls $15.

River: ($51) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $15, Hero calls $15.

Final Pot: $80

Results in white below:
Hero has Kc Jh (one pair, kings).
Button has Jd 5d (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins $80.


I was wondering how often you guys use a similar line to this after leading all the way until the river. I find myself doing it somewhat frequently. My thinking: Someone on a draw is most likely going to fold to a river bet anyways, but someone on a draw might take a stab at it if I check. If I bet, someone slow playing me or happens to catch a miracle river will make a raise I won't like calling. My check is obvious weakness though so if someone is slow playing me they will often just make a value bet that's usually around the amount I would've bet myself had I lead out. Someone with weaker kicker than myself will often make a value bet if I check, so many times I'm not missing the value bet myself. Sometimes I am though if they check behind or if second pair, etc. checks behind.

I would appreciate some of your opinions. Against very aggressive players I think it's an acceptable line, but I find myself doing it against perhaps too many players. Too passive?

[midas06]

I like. It's kind of like pricing the river, except someone else is doing it for you.

I agree in that you have to pick which ops to do it against however.

[Pingviini]

Very standard and good. I use this a lot.

[gabe]

i use it alot. its really important to pick the right people to use it before, like you said.

i had seen this guy bet abuot half the pot on river when he flopped a set, so this was easy check/call spot, although i heard from him how bad it was.

***** Hand History for Game 3435253664 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, January 25, 16:24:47 EDT 2006
Table Table 66037 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 2: slickback ( $415.15 )
Seat 3: RiverMonkey3 ( $200 )
Seat 5: galactical ( $201.80 )
galactical posts small blind [$1].
slickback posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to galactical [ Ks 7c ]
>You have options at Table 65565 (6 max) Table!.
galactical raises [$6].
slickback calls [$5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ts, Jh, 7s ]
galactical bets [$10].
slickback calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
>You have options at Table 69118 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
galactical bets [$16].
slickback calls [$16].
** Dealing River ** [ 5c ]
galactical checks.
slickback bets [$40].
galactical calls [$40].
slickback shows [ Qd, 9s ] high card queen.
galactical shows [ Ks, 7c ] a pair of sevens.
galactical wins $145 from the main pot with a pair of sevens.

[alias2211]

Smakin-

You're still in control of the hand, you're just subcontracting out that last bet, a bet that he'd never call, but one that he's only going to bet himself. Good play. When aggros go passive like that on first two streets with some obvious drawing boards (in this case, the flush), its a good time to check to them and setup this play. Some people can't help but take a stab there.

[SmackinYaUp]

Smakin-

You're still in control of the hand, you're just subcontracting out that last bet, a bet that he'd never call, but one that he's only going to bet himself. Good play. When aggros go passive like that on first two streets with some obvious drawing boards (in this case, the flush), its a good time to check to them and setup this play. Some people can't help but take a stab there.

hey wait a minute, what the hell is going on here?

[Miffed22001]

isnt this like 2 things
1. Pricing how much you're opp wants to showdown for.
2. Inducing a bluff.

Dumb opps always think you're bluffing the king but never the queen, so i often check the river in this sort of hand when i have the king on shown board to see if opp wants to bluff it it, i might minraise the river too.

[cardsman1992]

this play always bites me on the ass because I get outkicked, or opp puts a bet out there I am not confident in calling because I think I MIGHT be outkicked....

Any general discussion as to why that might be? I don't have any HH to post, but I play low level ($5.50 SNGs, $25 NL).

I thought it might be playing OOP, but DaNutsInYoEyes is OOP here.

His kicker is okay but not great.

Is it because it is 6 max???

[UG]

Is it because it is 6 max???

Yeah, pretty much.

[UG]

DaNutz,

What if your opponent raises to the size of the pot? Do you still call?

I've absolutely LOVED making this play on people, because they usually bet something wimpy thinking that I missed *my* draw. I'm more inclined to fold if it's pot-sized bet...

And that's why if I'm going to make a river bluff, like this guy tried to do, I'm going to raise enough where it will make you think twice about calling.

Good/bad?

[zenbitz]

I think it matters what OOP is holding.

You can play the same :
TP
2P
MP
Maybe even bottom pair if it's really a draw happy nut.

You should probably call almost anything with 2P or TPTK... smaller bets with TPNK, MP or worse.

The counter to this is to make really big bets on the river when checked too. Pot sized is probably not enough (still laying 2:1). Maybe 2x Pot or a/i. Sets up big when you hit or are slowplaying a set too.

I am just theorizing here, as I am 6max NL novice with maybe 200 hands under my belt.

[bdawg56kg]

DaNutz,

What if your opponent raises to the size of the pot? Do you still call?

I've absolutely LOVED making this play on people, because they usually bet something wimpy thinking that I missed *my* draw. I'm more inclined to fold if it's pot-sized bet...

And that's why if I'm going to make a river bluff, like this guy tried to do, I'm going to raise enough where it will make you think twice about calling.

Good/bad?

I don't really like this line of thought. IMO if you feel this way, you should throw out a blocking bet, around 1/2 pot, so that if you get raised you can toss your hand. But on the other hand, if you feel you have a good read, then I think it's important that you stick to it and make the call, whether it be 1/2 pot, full pot, or all in. I have called all ins on the river before with this line with hands as weak as 2nd pair, after betting the flop and turn and checking the river, then villian goes all in for twice the size of the pot. It certainly puts you to the test, but IMO if you have a read, you cannot let the size of a bluff scare you. Of course keep in mind that this is only in general, and that there are many exceptions.

[JCooper]

I agree, you have to believe in your read. If he pot-size then your read only has to be correct 1 time in 3 to break even. In this case you had a much more reliable read than that. If he raises AI you need to be correct more often. Mabe it is best to already have planned exactly how you will handle each line before you check to him. Otherwise you may outthink yourself. Most people would not slow-play a set here with the 2 diamonds on the board.